Is This Any of Our Business?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I am encountering a bit of a minor personal dilemma, nicely encapsulated by the question in the title. I am fairly sure that I know the answer already - it’s probably not my business - but I figured I’d throw it out into cyberspace and see if anyone had a perspective I hadn’t considered.

My dilemma concerns a very good friend who recently (two days ago) became engaged. Her name is Jamie, and I have known her for well over a decade. A bit of context about our relationship would probably be useful here, so: we met as high school freshmen. Both of us were enrolled in a magnet program for irredeemable nerds, and as a result we had literally all the same classes (the 25 people in the program had separate classes from the rest of the building; as you can imagine, we were tremendously cool and popular). We were always seated alphabetically, and thanks to a quirk of lettering Jamie wound up sitting directly to my left in every class for four years. Over time, we came to discover that we had similar perspectives on life, similar hobbies, and similar senses of humor. We became good friends. Then we dated, through our junior and senior years. We broke up shortly thereafter because we gradually came to realize that although we liked and respected one another, neither of us was actually physically attracted to the other. Seemed like a good reason to stop dating, so we did.

We wound up attending the same college - this was actually a complete coincidence - and remained friends throughout. Over time, we became something like best friends. We talked one another through relationship and educational crises, met for lunch twice a week, etcetera, etcetera. In my junior year of college, I met the woman who would become my wife; Jamie became very good friends with her, too. A few years later, she would stand as the maid of honor at my wedding. My wife and I consider her to be as much a part of our family as anyone we know.

Throughout our relationship, Jamie and I have always particularly valued extremely frank honesty. If she looks bad in a pair of pants, she counts on me to tell her even if others won’t. If something I write doesn’t work, I count on her to tell me that bluntly. We respect one another’s ideas and opinions enough that this honesty has helped both of us make large and small decisions throughout the last fifteen years or so.

Jamie has always been a little bit odd. Most people find her brash and off-putting, because she has very little filter between brain and mouth. On a personal level, she’s usually quite conservative; she rarely does anything without making three hundred lists and overthinking to the point of exhaustion. Every once in a while, though, she does something spectacularly impulsive - packing up her entire life and moving to Hungary to teach English, for example - and those things don’t usually end well.

Relationship-wise, she has struggled. She has often been drawn to men who are flawed or unattainable - the closeted gay guy, the married guy, the career guy with no time for a real relationship, the faithless player. She’ll turn 30 in May, and her marriage clock is ticking; she’s said as much to me.

Now to the problem: in November of last year (2006), Jamie went on a date with a man she met on the Internet. They got along well. He seems like a very nice, decent, honest guy; I like him a lot, based on the little I’ve seen so far. He’s a few years older than she, but not many. However, he was very recently divorced from a woman with significant mental health issues, with whom he has three daughters; he is now their custodial parent.

Jamie saw this man a few times between Thanksgiving and Christmas, with their relationship ramping up a bit in intensity early this year. Then, a few days ago, Jamie called me to tell me that she had gotten a manicure for the first time in her life. The reason? Well, she wanted her hands to look good when she showed them off. What?, I asked, because I’m slow like that. Well, I’m getting engaged tomorrow night, she tells me.

This is surprising. She has known this man - nice as he is - for only about four months. They do not see one another anything like daily. He is only very recently removed from what must have been an emotionally exhausting relationship and has three children to whom she will now become a mother (Jamie has always militantly maintained that she had no interest in being a parent, and seems to believe that she can marry this man without having to take any sort of parental role in the lives of his children). Jamie’s planning to quit her job in June to live with him full-time.

It looks to me very much like she is sprinting toward a finish line, and her protestations of true love forever seem a bit implausible. My wife agrees with me that this all seems out of character for her, and a little strange and unsettling.

So the question is, is this any of our business? Should we say anything about our misgivings, or is her life her life and none of our concern? I’m leaning towards saying nothing and being supportive, because I don’t particularly want to see the end of a 15-year friendship, but am troubled and figured I’d throw this out there.

Thoughts?

2

When I see a good friend – a friend with whom I can, and do, discuss anything – preparing to do something that he or she may not have thought all the way through, I’ll say something. I do not tell them “do this” or “don’t do that,” but I will say “I love you and I’m concerned about you, and obviously you’ll do whatever you want – but I hope you’ve considered Factors X, Y, and Z.”

3

When my brother and his gf announced to several of our friends that they were getting married, the responses were typical of each friend:
C: “congratulations!”
D and R: laughter.

D: “oh, no way! Are you serious? You can’t be serious! You’re my age! You can’t be getting married!” R: laughter.

Half an hour later, R still thought they were joking.

When years later D, “I’ll never get married because (insert list of reasons here)” D, announced he was getting married to “I’ll never get married (same list of reasons)” N, the Bros, C and myself asked “are you guys OK?” and D, looking quite amused at himself said “actually… yes! I feel better than ever!” while N nodded and modeled the grin smiley. So then we congratulated them. R was still laughing and thinking D and N were kidding.

Just for completion, R got married last January. When he and his live-in gf of many years announced it, the reactions were along the way of “about bloody time” to him and “I’d tell you you’re marrying an idiot but you already know it, right?” to her.

Your story makes me think of our reaction to D. I think you should confirm she’s OK and has thought about what she’s doing… but hey, if she is and has, more power to her and we want pics!

4

These two portions of your story lead me to believe that you should be supportive, but honest with Jamie. As twickster suggests, ask her if she’s considered X, Y, and Z. Tell her that you are concerned that she’s moving very fast, into a situation she hasn’t thought out well, and when she’s done things that you percieve as similar, they haven’t always worked out well.

Whatever you do, you don’t want to be the person a year from now, faced with Jamie crying on your shoulder thinking " I could have told you this wouldn’t work out, but I didn’t". Your friendship could be as damaged by that as by admitting to her that you are concerned about her present plan of action.

On the other hand, there are countless stories of people who got married against the advice of loved ones that worked out just dandy. So don’t ruin your relationship trying to protect her from harm. She’s a big girl, she can take care of herself.

5

Fact is you simply cannot know a person well enough in so short a time. If a person is fine, that’s one thing, however people are well able to hide serious flaws for quite a long time. Unless you spend a lot of time with a person over the course of six months, you can’t really say you know that person. In fact, it is my firm belief that you need to live together for a year before you decide to marry someone. By then, you know each other well enough.

I know many cases where people who married in haste did repent it. One - someone dated a guy for over a year (but they didn’t spend a lot of time together at one stretch). Then they moved in. She discovers just how much he really drinks - he used to drink when he went home after dropping her off at the end of a date.

If someone is worth marrying, he’ll wait a year for you to figure out if you two are truly a good match.

Now, how you can convey this to her, I don’t know. But I hope you can.

6

When a close friend of mine (call him A) got engaged to a sexy selfish bitch, there were two methods used:

  • I said I hope all goes well (even though the bitch had been rude to me)
  • another good friend (call him B) said the marriage was doomed

A never spoke to B again.
A’s marriage broke up soon (and messily) and I see him regularly.

Good luck.

7

Years ago I spoke to a friend about the woman he was marrying. All of his friends agreed that she didn’t seem right for him, but no one would speak about it. I did. I pissed him off and almost lost his friendship. And he married her anyway. He is now rather miserable, as we all expected, but the lesson I learned is: no one appreciates this type of advice and there is no ROI. I have always kept mum about such things since.

8

My mother taught me something (that she herself does not do, but that’s another story); she said in cases like this, if you are close to someone and genuinely concerned, you get “one shot”. Sit down with her and say, “I love you, and I support you, but I am concerned about this, an here is why,” and then lay out your reasoning. When you are done tell her you will never bring up that subject again, and then do it. Be very polite when you lay all this out, and try very very hard to not step on any toes. And if, when you’ve finished, she goes forward with this anyway be as supportive as you can possibly be, even to the point of faking it(a bit). I don’t mean that you should say you agree with what she is doing (unless over the course of time your opinion changes and you do in fact approve), I just mean, have faith in her decisions and show it.

Friends forgive one time questioning, if it is kind, and done with real concern. They don’t forget badgering, or a constant reminder of “I told you this was a bad idea.” If she is as smart as you say, perhaps her reasoning is sound, even though it doesn’t seem so.

9

I’d butt out.

I know how I would react if I were in her shoes - this is not something you want to express an opinion about. Be supportive and a friend. Wish her well. And butt out.

10

I agree with miss elizabeth’s advice.

And, if you decide to take your “one shot,” it would probably be best to do it in the least confrontational way possible. You don’t want to say anything that could be construed as critical of either Jessie or of her fiancee.

11

At least there’s going to be a period of engagement. Presumably, your friend will meet and spend time with the three children she’ll be mothering.

I agree that you can speak openly with her, once, but I think you should wait until you meet the guy.

12

Just to clarify my original answer, in case it’s getting misconstrued: I think if you have concerns, you should mention them to her – once – and only in terms of objective commentary, not attacks on her or her beloved. After that, back off and be supportive.

13

Thank you all for your responses. I suppose I can see the idea behind the “one shot” philosophy, and think it’s pretty wise. Now I just have to find a way to say it. My problem is that all of my concerns, if expressed directly, make it sound like I think she’s a dimwit who hasn’t thought about these things.

And yes, they are planning an engagement period - actually a fairly long one - so I guess there’s that.