Ah, the old ethical purity of bus stop usage quandary. I suffer through this every morning when I walk out my door.
See, I live on 83rd street and there are bus stops on the next avenue over at 82nd and 84th. If I walk a block down 83rd, the 84th street stop is on my side of the block (I don’t have to cross 84th to get to it). However, to get to the 82nd street stop, I have to cross 83rd and 82nd so it’s physically downstream (yet ethically upstream) from 84th. Sometimes I go to 84th so I at least stand a chance of getting a seat. Heck, sometimes I’ll go up to 86th. Maybe I should go to 82nd and be last in line or better yet go down to 79th and I definitely won’t get a seat and the bus will be packed and I’ll be a better person for it. But then what happens when I feel like taking a stroll over to 2nd ave to catch the limited bus at 86th street instead of taking the other bus and catching the limited at 57th street? If I walk over to 79th street to catch the 2nd ave limited instead of 86th street, will that be ethically equivalent to catching the local at 82nd and transferring to the limited at 57th, and more ethical than catching the local at 84th and transferring to the limited at 57th or should I walk down to 79th street, take the crosstown to 2nd and catch the limited there? I guess the most unethical would be catching the 86th street crosstown to 2nd (therefore possibly getting ahead of people who are walking to 86th and 2nd) and catching the 2nd avenue limited at 86th. But I guess if the crosstown takes forever to load passengers, it might be equal time-wise to walking so perhaps there’s some ethical equivalency there.
cjhoworth and Glee, I’ve already answered your questions: If you have a “good faith” reason (and jumping the queue does not qualify), then you’re free to use any bus stop. My problem is with the idea that you’re using another busstop ONLY to get a seat (while depriving the others of theirs).
But it’s OK, now that I know the mentality that I’m dealing with. I won’t feel bad about flying down the shoulder lane while the other suckers stand in traffic. They’ll admire me for my risk-taking. Sure it’s illegal, but I’ve got plenty of money to pay the fine. Maybe it will convince the state to expand the highway. And when I fly standby, I’ll lie about a sick relative waiting in the hospital. That should push me up in the queue. Other passengers will have a positive feeling about me when I give them the wink once I’m seated. And it’s not even illegal!
By the way (since someone asked), I’m not an economist although I have studied some Econ. I’m actually an MBA in Finance working in the Fortune 500 world.
Oh, come on! Could you please keep in mind that people are free to use whichever bus stop they want? There are no laws against it!
Your comparison of driving down the shoulder, which IS illegal and dangerous, is ridiculous!
What about this: instead of going upstream to jump the queue and get a better seat, I go downstream to a stop where I know a bunch of people usually get off, which will guarantee me a seat if I get on there. Is THAT unethical too, since I have still not used my “proper” stop AND gotten a better seat, even though I walked in the opposite direction from my intented destination?
I have to say this whole thing is completely petty and I really hope you aren’t serious about it.
You haven’t answered my questions about how much further away one stop needs to be before you consider it unethical, nor about what your other reasons were.
I am alarmed that you are equating walking to another bus stop and using the shoulder. I wonder if you are suggesting we do (I think debaser was either joking, or admitting guilt).
As I posted earlier, using the shoulder is illegal.
If, waiting in a vehicle, I see someone do this, I will take his number and call the police.
If I see someone walking to the bus stop in front of the one I’m at, then I will do nothing.
Nice try Jackknife, but the two examples you listed are nowhere near equivalent to walking to the next bus stop. When you walk two blocks (or whatever) you do not break the law or lie to someone.
Some people have been known to get up extra early around the holidays to get their Christmas shopping down before the crowd gets there and all the good merchandise is gone.
Is THAT “jumping the queue?”
I mean, maybe there are people who work late and can’t get up that early…
OK. Well listen folks. You’ll be glad to hear that I won’t ever drive on the shoulder (unless it’s an emergency, thereby sticking to my good faith principle).
I still don’t agree with the legality = ethics arguments of some. I also don’t understand why people are so concerned about who I am and what I do. I prefer to argue based on merits. By the way, I’m not a recent grad, but have been out of B-school for about 5 years now.
Glee- I think that your question about the bus stop distances is a silly one when you consider my posts that talk about good faith decision-making. Also, my 2 reasons (1- Some people can’t walk as far as me, and 2- Reduction of total utility) have been discussed. I initially thought that there were more, but can’t think of any others.
Just so everyone is clear, my friend (a Corporate Attorney in Manhattan, because I know someone will ask) is the one who first questioned me on whether I thought it was ethical. He was getting dirty looks from people at his original stop. We discussed this for about a half-hour and concluded that he shouldn’t go to the other stop unless there was a good faith reason.
As a side note, I appreciate everyone who added something worthwhile to the thread. I’ll be off this message board starting tomorrow for about 3 weeks because…
I’m getting married this coming Sunday in Toronto. Wish me luck.
Your stop-hopping friend is the worst human being who ever lived and I look forward to the day when armed Bus Marshals ride on every route and are authorized to use deadly force to stop these shenanigans.
If you’re not with me, you’re with the terrorists.
Good luck! You won’t need it. Congrats is more like it Congratulations to any engaged people involved in this thread in fact (chalk), I’m looking in your direction…)
I use the bus stop near my house because i have a less chance of being robbed not because of a better seat.
I am disabled and have the right to ask the driver to make someone move for me, so i dont have that problem… I have been known to walk an extra block or two so i can sit on a bus bench or move away from a bad area.
Congratulations to any engaged people involved in this thread in fact (chalk), I’m looking in your direction…)
I use the bus stop near my house because i have a less chance of being robbed not because of a better seat.