Is This Friendship Over?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I have a friend that I know through my husband. He was a roommate along with a bunch of other guys in college. He is the weirdest fucking person you will ever meet. He is highly intelligent but full of wild theories and ideas, and… morally questionable. Oh, and misogynistic. He is incredibly misogynistic. While he lived in Japan for several years, he was really into hookers and strippers, he is very anti-monogamy but lately he’s been talking about marrying a Japanese woman because ‘‘they are more subservient.’’ I once cleaned our kitchen when we were roommates and his response was, ‘‘Wow, you might not make such a terrible mother after all.’’

I wouldn’t call him a sociopath, exactly, but there is definitely something emotionally off about him. He has a tendency to talk about very offensive/socially inappropriate things as if he’s being very rational - think A Modest Proposal, only instead of satire, he’s conjecture. I’ve heard him say everything from a nuclear war might be a good thing for society to you can only get HIV if you really want to have it.

I have to admit, his complete lack of mouth-to-brain filter can be highly entertaining. He’s also very charming and gives good fitness advice. He’s not some weird social pariah but quite successful in his own right. There is an emotional bond there despite his flaws. He frequently expresses that he cares about us, and we care about him too. We just keep in touch via Facebook but every once in a while we all - all of the roommates - get together and catch up. It’s a nostalgia thing.

Since he’s come back from Japan, he’s been even worse than usual, to the point that I’m getting really concerned about his mental health. While he lived in Japan he experienced that rather traumatic earthquake and his closest friend committed suicide. He had totally sold his soul and was working for a headhunting organization doing shady-ass business dealings so he was miserable and finally came crawling home. Now we talk via IM and Facebook once to several times a week. I enjoy most of our conversations because he knows a lot about history and other cultures that I do not know. He is already talking about selling out again and has been accepted to several prestigious grad schools that would allow him to pursue his weird life goals. He’s been very angsty lately. I think he’s feeling completely lost.

Bottom line, he’s been saying some racist, sexist, crazy fucking shit lately, and worst of all, he’s saying it on my Facebook Wall. I never mince words when I think he’s crossed a line, but I’m getting really tired of having to go out of my way to illustrate that I think his ideas are reprehensible. I don’t think he believes 90% of the shit he says, but lately I’m not sure. I’m honestly more worried about my reputation than anything else - I am a progressive, anti-racist, social-justice oriented person and I would hate for a prospective employer or colleague to mistake his views for mine.

Anyway, about 10 minutes ago, in response to a post I made about a toddler shot by its mother, he decided to start pondering whether or not infanticide should be legal. Since babies have no self concept, he asked, who is really being killed?

I know, he’s a troll.

I responded thusly:

The question is, is this a cry for help or has it really just come to the point that I cut off contact with him? And how will that affect the group dynamics in my circle of friends? Do I have a responsibility to help him get through this… whatever he’s going through? Or is he really just a complete irredeemable jackass?

2

You can get good fitness advice elsewhere. You have no responsibility to help this adult with his life problems. I am struggling to understand how cutting such a person out of your life would have any sort of lasting negative effect on your close circle of friends, as he doesn’t sound like the sort of person who would be in that social group to begin with.

3

I am missed the part of your story where there is some reason to hesitate.

4

Actually, IIRC, I’ve seen a very similar point pondered (though maybe not for the same reasons) by at least one longtime poster on this message board (in the context of abortion, I believe). Don’t remember who or where (actually, I have an inkling, but don’t want to name a name for fear I’m wrong), but it definitely rings a bell.

So not necessarily a troll, but you’ve already provided ample other reasons to not associate with this dude anymore, especially if your husband (the person you met him through) no longer does either.

5

If he just started being like that out of nowhere, then maybe it would be a cry for help. You say he’s always been that way, even if to a slightly lesser extent. He’s just a jackass and you’re wasting your time being friends with him.

6

The fact that you have a weird, nostalgic bond with the guy is not a reason for you to let him use your Facebook Wall as a platform for his crazy.

None of what you’ve written reads a friendship to me, more on the level of ‘occasionally entertaining acquaintance’.

What does your husband have to say? Is he closer with Nostalgia Troll? (To be honest, from what you’ve said about you and your husband, I’m surprised that either of you have been willing to put up with this guy.)

7

I, uh, think about things like this sometimes. I mean, it’s all tied up with one’s views on abortion and when one really thinks human life begins and such, right? And it’s true that a newborn infant is really not sentient, which was driven home to me when I had a baby of my own.

I am not trying to say I’m in favor of infanticide — in fact, I’m even conflicted on abortion. But I kind of see where he’s coming from in the sense of wanting to talk intellectually about these kinds of things, because I’m sort of that way myself — I’ll come up with random things like this, that most people think are offensive, and want to examine them to see whether they’re consistent with other opinions, and so on.

However, I would never ever dream of saying this kind of thing on someone’s Facebook wall. (And definitely not in response to an article about a mother killing a toddler, because a) not even relevant! and b) WTF?) Even saying it semi-anonymously on a message board sort of gives me the shakes, because probably someone will read it and misinterpret what I mean.

I think the real issue here is not that he’s arguing for infanticide, which I can totally see as him just playing around with concepts and ideas, because it’s totally the sort of thing I would do. The issue is that he’s doing it over your express wish that he not do it on your public Facebook page, and thus not respecting your (totally reasonable) wishes.

I think the solution is simple: tell him that if he doesn’t desist, you’ll defriend him on Facebook. I don’t know if it’s necessary to actually break off the friendship itself; that’s your call to make as to whether you think the friendship as a whole is worth it for you (and if not, then you should definitely go ahead and end the friendship). But if he’s the kind of highly-intelligent, likes-to-think-of-himself-as-super-rational-and-not-at-all-emotional sort of person I am familiar with, he won’t take offense either at your saying that or to your following through if he doesn’t in fact stop, and you can still be friends while teaching him that he needs to respect other people’s boundaries. (And if he does get upset, you can make fun of him for it. I’m serious — this kind of person will actually respect you more if you call him out for emotional responses to things like Facebook defriending.)

(Also, I wouldn’t worry about an employer thinking these are your opinions. Any employer who isn’t willing to give some slack to “person has one crackpot friend” isn’t an employer you want to have anyway.)

8

The first and most obvious thing to do is to defriend him on Facebook. Can you delete his postings? I would delete everything he has posted and your responses.

When my friends say crazy shit I say, “That is some crazy shit.” Have you told him that he says a lot of crazy shit?

9

Why were you even friends with this person in the first place?

10

Some people need a firm slap in the face to wake up to their shit.

If you want to salvage him and salvage your friendship, you might need to do more than you did. Along the way you’ll need to re-assure him that you care about him, but he needs to Wake The Fuck Up and stop being such a collosal ass.

11

Well, we’re both feeling pretty pushed to our limit right now. I think the issue is that my husband is a psychologist and I’m crazy so we both can’t help but see things in terms of mental health. My husband thinks he may be Bipolar (Type II.) I think he’s a little closer to the guy than I am, but not enough that he would tolerate too much more of this behavior. I mean, it’s getting to a point where we feel like we have to do something.

But also, I’m not sure it bothers my husband as much as it does me. He’s very good at not getting worked up about other people’s weird opinions. For example, he doesn’t feel compelled to get involved in internet debates or respond to trolls. Since he talks to him more rarely than I do, I could see him just sort of ignoring it.

I’m not even the only person fed up with him right now. We have a mutual friend who is on the verge of dropping the banhammer as well.

And that’s the thing, right? I’m honestly worried people are going to look at me and wonder if there’s not something seriously wrong with me too.

He was a friend of my husband’s roommate freshman year of college. There was a gang of like 5 guys and we all decided to move in together. Since most of the time in college was spent playing video games, we knew he believed some weird shit but it wasn’t as big of an issue. The thing is, most people who know him like him, because he’s very likeable. I know that sounds bizarre given the kinds of things he says, but some people just have charisma.

And yes, I tell him he is saying crazy shit all the time. All of his friends tell him this. He is all too aware that we consider him socially inappropriate.

12

If all of his friends put up with this kind of crap, then I think that it is likely that he isn’t really aware of his inappropriateness. He hasn’t suffered any consequences for it, clearly.

13

My two cents (based on a somewhat similar experience):

Defriend him on Facebook, and send him a message explaining that you need a break from having his more far-out views in your face for awhile. (Or block him.) It’s a reasonable request that will create some distance, and take care of the issue of what people might think of you if they see that stuff on your wall.

While this probably sounds like a friendship-ending thing to do, in my experience, people like this guy usually take it pretty well in stride. That should give you time to think about the situation. If he flips out about it, then any break in the friendship is his choice.

14

Friendships are a voluntary relationship that, in some way, benefits both people in it. Usually, it means that both people enjoy the company of the other and will go above and beyond lesser friendships to help the other out and also feels comfortable asking a little bit more of them when needed. At a certain point, when you stop wanting to be in that friendship, that’s the time to end it. But only you can make that judgment.

All of that said, just because you may stop being friends with him doesn’t mean things need to get hostile or that even you can’t still help him out. I’ve had friends I’ve generally stopped talking to for various reasons but if we run into eachother, we can still be pleasant.

I had a similar situation, with someone posting political stuff to just about anything I would post, writing it to my wall, and pretty much everything got turned that way. I didn’t want to unfriend, because that person is family, but I did block that person’s feed and I consider the audience for posts I make and if I might turn into that, I reduce it.

So, if I were in your situation, I would consider unfriending on Facebook, or perhaps if you think that’s too far consider blocking his feed, preventing him from seeing your updates, and/or deleting anything he may post to your wall. At the very least, even if you do end the friendship, I would say tell him why. Even if you do decide not to cut off contact, perhaps because they’ll still be a part of your social circle, you still don’t have to be friends with that person, just a social acquaintance that you might run into when hanging out with a mutual friend or acquaintance, and that can easily be limited to a quick hi when you see them and then exiting any conversation they turn south.
That all said, I think it’s fine and good to consider some things like relationships between infanticide and abortion at an intellectual level, but only in an appropriate context. Posting that on someone’s Facebook wall is unlikely to ever be an appropriate context, that’s what personal discussions, groups, or places like the Straight Dope are for.

15

If the majority of your interactions with him are uncomfortable - either because the things he says/do make you feel uncomfortable, or if you just find yourself feeling uncomfortable because of what he *might *say/do, then you’re not getting enough out of the friendship to justify continuing it.

You have absolutely no responsibility for the state of your friend’s mental health.

16

Yes, I’m not sure why you continue to be around this guy. You aren’t responsible for him or his happiness in any way. Tell him exactly what he is, say you can’t deal with him saying all those hateful things any more, and that this is it, goodbye.

He probably won’t ever change as he hasn’t changed so far in the face of everyone telling him he’s reprehensible, so if you stick around it’ll just be more of the same.

17

Everyone’s got some nut among their Facebook friends. Whether or not to continue the friendship is one thing, but the mere fact that he’s saying crazy stuff on your Facebook page is not something that I, for one, would hold against you.

18

Yeah, you pretty much lost me in the first paragraph.

As far as any “obligations” you may have to him, you fulfilled them with “If you believe the things you say, get help.” Done.

What are you getting out of this relationship now? (Leaving aside the question of ‘what did you ever get out of it?’) You don’t need him around for nostalgia, you can swim in nostalgia all you want without him. You can get fitness advice online, from another friend, or from a personal trainer.

Personally I have no idea why he lasted after he mocked you for cleaning the kitchen.

19

No kidding. I’m seriously baffled why anyone would maintain a relationship with someone who spoke that way about them or their spouse.

20

General rule of thumb: if he treats you like shit, he ain’t really your friend.