Is this man transphobic?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ll make this hypo brief, 'cause I’m lazy.

Roger is a carpenter in his 40s. He owns a prosperous woodworking shop and has about 50 employees, and he’s scrupulous about not discriminating against anyone for reasons of race, religion, sexual orientation, color, and so forth. His openness on this issue is unusual in the conservative Southern city in which he lives and has gotten him good press from LGBT organizations. Four of his employees are transexuals. He didn’t set out to give jobs to transpersons, as he doesn’t care one way or the other. But his primary lumber vendor, Mary, is a male-to-female transgender person whom he got friendly with before knowing her status, and became an ever better friend with afterwards. Over the years she’s given good references to several persons she knows from her community.

Roger’s been divorced for two years and lonely for all that time. For the last year or so he’s been dating a lot, looking not for one night stands but a second and hopefully lasting marriage. He hasn’t had the best luck; most of the women he’s met are more interested in his ample bank account than anything else. Knowing of his quest, Mary approaches him one day and says that she knows the perfect woman for him. Shannon is smart, funny, hot, and well-off in her own right, Mary says (showing him a cell-phone pic that verifies the “cute” bit, at least) and is also looking for a long-term relationship; like Roger, she does not want children. Mary has mentioned Roger to Shannon without identifying him, and if Roger’s amenable, she will invite them both to a dinner party so they can see what develops.

Roger hesitates. “I need to ask one question,” he says. “Is Mary a real woman? A biological female, I mean, not a transman, like you.”

“A transman is a person born with female genitalia woman identifies as male,” Mary replies. “I’m a transwoman. And a real woman.”

“Right, right, sorry. But anyway – is Shannon a biological woman, or made that way through surgery?”

“She’s like me.”

“Then no. 'm sorry, but I could never be attracted to a post-op transexual.”

“But you just said she was hot. You wolf-whistled her pic. But now that you know she has a Y chromosome, your dick’s gone soft?.”

“Pretty much,” Roger says. “I don’t mind being friends with trans people, or working with them; you know that. But sexually I could only ever be with a biological female. Please don’t be offended, Mary. That’s just how I feel.”

Mary is a bit offended, of course. Is she right to be? Is Roger transphobic?

2

I don’t think Roger is transphobic. Dating is a weird, complicated thing.

But a quick googling shows that trans women in hormonal therapy excrete female pheromones. So there’s a biological possibility that Roger would be physically attracted to Shannon. His uninterest, therefore, is a purely social construct.

3

I voted “no.”

He can find Shannon attractive but also feel like they wouldn’t be compatible, and that doesn’t make him transphobic. There are a lot of people who I find visually appealing, but for various reasons, I wouldn’t be interested in dating them.

4

You should treat people equally in social transactions. And that includes accepting the relationships of other couples. But your own relationships are a matter for your opinion. You’re not obligated to be equally attracted to everyone.

It’s not homophobic, for example, to be a straight men who is not attracted to other men. It’s not racist if you’re not attracted to people of certain races (maybe even your own). It’s not discriminatory if you’re only attracted to people of a certain height or weight or hair color. And I feel it’s not discriminatory if you’re not attracted to transgendered people.

5

This same issue comes up about race often, and no I don’t think it is phobic at all.

The way I look at it is, even if it isn’t a law people should have a right to be treated equally no matter their race/gender/sex/orientation in business and other interactions.

But no one has a right to be in a relationship with a particular person or be found attractive by them or have sex with them, they can reject them for whatever reason. No one can force themselves to be sexually attracted to someone, they either are or they aren’t.

The way I look at this it would be like calling a straight guy homophobic because he isn’t sexually attracted to men.

6

I voted “possibly” because it’s hard to know the exact motivation. I certainly don’t fault anyone for being more picky in a potential spouse than they would be in any other relationship. It’s not enough to just pick a person, when you’re picking the one.

On the other hand, it’s one thing to treat employees and business suppliers fairly and another thing entirely to be non-phobic. People who are racist (or whatever) are often fairly good at compartmentalizing when and where they are racist. So maybe Roger knows he has to treat everyone fairly at the workplace, but deep down is transphobic.

Overall, I’m giving Roger the benefit of the doubt, but I don’t have enough evidence to be entirely confident of his true motivations/feelings.

7

I voted “yes,” but want to qualify it to add “But only a very little.” If he only applies it to his own personal dating life, then it’s not “bigotry,” exactly.

It is a slight instance of a “phobia” in the modern re-casting of the word, which includes social antipathies.

A man who would never date a woman of another race is “racist” but if that’s the only way it is exhibited in his life, he’s pretty darn minimally racist.

If “transphobic” or “racist” is a Boolean term, either/or, yes/no, then, no, Roger the Hypothetical isn’t “more phobic than non-phobic,” and so falls (quite a way!) on the good side of the boundary.

But few people are ever “all or nothing” in their social misgraces. A great, great majority of us fall short of perfection in our display of tolerance.

8

I guess you’d have to define “transphobic.” He’s uncomfortable dating a transsexual simply because she’s a transsexual. Depending on your definition, that may or may not make him transphobic. If you mean it literally, (is he afraid of transsexuals) then I’d say no. If you mean “does he harbor some prejudice against transsexuals” then i’d say probably yes, but within his rights. As others have said, dating is about personal preferences and no one has a right to be considered dating material by Roger.

9

I haven’t voted because I haven’t made up my mind yet.

I have to admit that when someone declares that they could never be attracted to someone who is X, I feel like there’s something lurking behind that statement. It just seems so absolute, and there are so few things that are ever that absolute when push comes to shove.

I think for the sake of the friendship with Mary, Roger should have agreed to go on the dinner date. What’s the worse that could happen? If there’s no chemistry, there’s no chemistry. At the very least, Roger could say he gave it a fair shot.

10

I voted possibly but on reflection, maybe I should have voted not.

I am not comfortable with the “-phobic” label. You can not find someone date-able for all sorts of shallow reasons but that doesn’t make you “phobic.” Plus. Roger’s dating history isn’t known here - perhaps he has on numerous previous occasions dated trans people and decided that for whatever reason, it doesn’t work for him. Just because one is tolerant and even-handed in business and day-to-day life, that’s not a mandate that you must also be open to dating these folks.

I’m cis female and I also find tall, relatively fit men particularly attractive. As well as men who have a similar level of intelligence, life experience, culture, etc to me. (And I’m old enough to have a lot of experimentation behind me!) So if someone were to offer to set me up on a date with a rather short, fat, devout Muslim man who never graduated high school and has never traveled, well he might be a really nice and sweet person whose company I might enjoy but that wouldn’t fit my dateability profile so I’d most likely decline.

That is not phobic or prejudicial, is it? It’s just not wanting to waste anyone’s time.

11

I think I echo Trinopus on this one. Assuming we’re working off the definition of “transphobic” as “negative attitudes or feelings about trans people” then yes… he admitted that he has no interest in a transwoman, despite there being no difference that would effect him, as far as we can tell (no interest in kids, for example). To flip it around, say it was an issue with not wanting to date someone (who was perfect in every way) because they were fat… I’d say that’s still a negative attitude about fat people.

But I do agree that it’s very slight, since he’s apparently compartmentalizing it to only his romantic interests, not his friends or hirelings. It’s the same thing as “I don’t date black people” while having getting along well with black friends or black co-workers.

12

I would not be interested either. Just not into that. No excuses, no apologies.

13

For me treating someone as a human being and giving them the respect and consideration they deserve as a human being is the key test here. If someone self-identifies as a man/woman, that is there own business and it shouldn’t be any hardship to NOT to attavk them up or mock them for this. It isn’t a big deal to not to challenge this self-identification or the sake of challenging it. It isn’t a big deal if someone wants you to refer to them using the masculine/feminine pronouns if they so wish, it’s not a big deal to not kick up a fuss when someone who earnestly self-identifies as a certain sex uses the facilities (i.e. lavatory/changing room) of that sex.

However respecting someone else’s point of view is not the same as having to take on that point of view.

14

He decided not to date someone based solely on the fact the they are transgender. That’s obviously, unequivocally transphobic. It’s the definition of transphobic. Just as not dating someone based on race is racist. I know it hurts everyone’s feefees but it’s the truth.

(I did not read any of the other replies, nor will I be returning to this thread)

15

I’m not expecting a reply, but in which case would a gay man refusing to date a woman purely on the basis that they are a woman make him a woman-hater?

As a neologism the definition of transphobic is not going to be commonly understood and agreed upon, but that almost seems irrelevant.

16

It’s funny. Those were the exact words the judge used when Scarlett Johansson filed that restraining order on me.

17

And she probably left thinking she was open minded.

18

Welp, way to not get the entire concept of message boards, having an educated opinion, sharing opinions and human interaction in general. :smack:

19

She told me I was the only one who she had filed an order against!:mad:

20

I’m not sure I’d agree with this. If Rodger really knows he’s not interested then I think he’s better off just saying no before the date. If he goes on a date with this woman and then says he’s not interested, it’s going to make the rejection more personal and is more likely to hurt her feelings.