IMO Roger clearly doesn’t actually discriminate against transgender persons in a professional environment. He didn’t condemn Shannon, he said he wasn’t interested. I’ve known people who would only date blondes. And only Asian girls. Is a black man a racist because he prefers to date only black women? Edited: So I voted “no.”
The question was somewhat cut and dried IMO. The real-life situations I’ve witnessed or been involved in as a transsexual woman are typically much more complicated.
Agreed. Racism, homophobia, sexism and anti-Semitism are contemptible because those who hold such views believe “the other” to be inherently bad, threatening, of lower status or even subhuman. But the heart is a lonely hunter, and you are not a bad person for not being sexually or romantically attracted to a particular subset of humanity, define it as you will.
:: sheepishly raises hand ::
Mary is allowed to be offended. But Roger is not transphobic.
Like Roger, I am all for trans rights. But I’m not interested in dating a trans person. Nothing against them, I’d just rather be single.
Yes, Mary has a right to be offended (tho I wouldn’t say she is right to be offended) tho she would be wrong to hold it against Roger. And Roger is not transphobic.
But even if he was somewhat, as long as he’s decent to everyone, so what?
And I like how the one person who was dogmatic in the affirmative then takes off to avoid any dissent.
He might be transphobic, just like anyone might be transphobic (and many people are), but IMO not being open to dating a transperson doesn’t mean that they are. I wouldn’t date one either. If I thought someone was attractive and then found out he was biologically female, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be attracted to him anymore. I would have nothing against him, but I just wouldn’t want to date him. (If I did happen to still find him attractive, then sure…but I think that would be extremely unlikely to happen even if I knew a lot of transmen. So I wouldn’t agree to the blind date just because anything’s possible, just like I don’t buy lotto tickets because anything’s possible).
Exactly. Transphobic? I don’t know. But he’s definitely dickish. It would have cost him nothing to go and not feel a connection and it would have meant the world to Mary and Shannon that he would be willing to see. But their feelings are less important than his vague unease.
I don’t understand this debate at all. It’s Roger’s choice who he wants to spend his time with. Whether the woman is transexual or not is irrelevant… if he is not attracted to this person, then there is zero chance that he will ever be happy with her. Whether she is “cute” or not does not factor into the equation. I know many “cute” or physically attractive people who have other traits that make them undesireable.
For Roger to say he is not interested in a male who has had genital surgery to become female does not mean he is a bigot or a homophobe or a gay-hater or a trans-phobic anything. It means he is not interested in dating men who have had genital surgery to become female. And, frankly, I don’t blame him. It’s his life and he should have the right to choose who he does or does not want to spend it with.
This is insane. By that same logic, if I do not wish to date a male I am homophobic? Because I do not find the idea of inserting my penis in another man’s colon to be erotic. By the same token, I do not find the idea of inserting my penis inside the body of a man who has undergone a vaginoplasty to be erotic. Sorry, it just doesn’t turn me on. This means that I am a bigot? And the only way to not be a bigot is to participate in a sexual event that I find at best unappealing and at worst repellent? Because last I checked, just as a trans-person is in control of their own body I am in control of mine, and I deserve the right to decide what organs or orifices I do or do not enjoy inserting my penis in.
We can’t always control how we feel, but we can control how we act.
Roger treats everybody decently, its up to him who he wants to date.
My vote would be - he has transphobic attitudes, but I would support his right to make the decision he has, and actually admire his hiring decision and the way he treats people all the more
Mary’s “…your dick’s gone soft?” comment is crass and has demoted her from “friend” to “colleague to whom I am polite during working hours and make no attempt to see otherwise”.
Oh, and as to the OP? “Just as you’re entitled to consider yourself whatever gender you wish and not be answerable to me, so I am entitled to be attracted to whomever I wish and not be answerable to you.”
I voted no, and I don’t think "phobic’ is really the correct word. Hell, when I was dating, I screened potential dates by their politics as well as other factors. That doesn’t mean I’m *phobic *about conservatives, but I wouldn’t want my daughter to marry one…
The entire premise of accepting gays and transgender people, as I understand it, is based on the premise that a person does not choose their sexual orientation nor their gender. Likewise, I should not concern myself with what sexual acts they do or do not enjoy in the privacy of their own home. I should hope they extend the same courtesy to me. The idea that they should be able to dictate to Roger or me or anyone what sexual acts we should / should not enjoy is rank hypocrisy.
And I agree with Malacandra. If that is a literal quote from Mary I would rapidly find my way out of that relationship. Not because she is transgender, or because she tried to set me up with a transgender person, or anything else related to that. Rather, she is a bitch who does not respect me or my boundaries and is therefore not worthy of being my friend. Because last I checked, we judge people based on the content of their character and Mary sounds like she does not have much character at all.
Who says it would have meant the world to them? I’d rather someone not go out with me if they probably won’t end up being interested, than go out with me and then reject me after that, when they actually know me so it’s more personal. Because that’s how I am, that’s how I tend to look at it in the reverse situation. That’s thinking of other people’s feelings just as much as your take on it.
+1 to this. Unreciprocated love is very hurtful for the lover and can be very uncomfortable for the object of undesired affection. Either way, if he is not interested it hurts less for all involved for him to be honest from the start.
This, totally. Things can sometimes get a bit complicated – as with Roger finding Shannon’s picture attractive when he imagined her as female lifelong, but ceasing to be interested, on discovering that she was trans-gender – but sexual / romantic attraction is a matter of personal idiosyncracy. It’s not about ethics, or logic or 2 plus 2 invariably making 4. God help us if those in authority (actually so, or self-appointed) get to ordering us about, regarding who we must – or may not – be sexually / romantically attracted to.
This, totally. Things can sometimes get a bit complicated – as with Roger finding Shannon’s picture attractive when he imagined her as female lifelong, but ceasing to be interested, on discovering that she was trans-gender – but sexual / romantic attraction is a matter of personal idiosyncracy. It’s not about ethics, or logic or 2 plus 2 invariably making 4. God help us if those in authority (actually so, or self-appointed) get to ordering us about, regarding who we must – or may not – be sexually / romantically attracted to.
If Mary was intending not to mention that Shannon was trans unless Roger asked about it, I’d find that somewhat dishonest on her part. Roger may be perfectly OK with transgender people, and Shannon certainly has a right to identify as a woman, but assuming that Mary was hoping to set them up for a lasting relationship, that’s the kind of information that would have to be shared at some point, and it’s better that that sort of thing be shared up front specifically in case attitudes like these are present; better to have it established that Roger wouldn’t be interested in being with a transwoman up front than have him find out about it much later on.
That tangent aside, I don’t think he’s being transphobic here, anymore than someone who isn’t interested in dating people of Ethnicity X makes them racist.
I detect the “traditional values are under assault” narrative in this scenario.
No, Roger isn’t wrong for not being attracted to Shannon; his life, his choice.
I suspect, if Mary were a real transgender, as opposed to the heterosexual male that wrote this scenario, she would have approached the situation in a manner that didn’t put Roger on the spot.
This +1. Roger just needs to say “I belong to the gender of people not attracted to peopleI am not attracted to. Don’t judge me.”
And Mary belongs to the gender of “people who are being treated with respect and respond by being assholes”.
Regards,
Shodan