I voted “not transphobic” but am happy to tack “but uptight” as a rider.
Transwomen are women, and it’s a little uptight to exclude admittedly attractive ones based on how they came by their vaginas. Not very, there it is. Just like people who won’t even consider dating outside their own race may not be racists, but they’re certainly uptight.
How do you define transphobic? Is it “one time means all the time?”
Despite Roger’s fair treatment of trans in general, does he deserve a label that places him in the same company of right-wing hatemongers who go out of their way to make sure trans are brought down? Is it somebody’s intention to put together a list for trans to consult to see whom they should avoid?
What is this labeling of Roger supposed to accomplish? Is this being done to make him see the error of his ways? Should he fake a relationship with somebody who doesn’t turn him on so he doesn’t look transphobic?
Leave the poor guy alone.
You don’t have any choice in who or what you are sexually attracted to, and LBGT people should be the first to understand that.
Is it always wrong to preemptively try to weed out potential dates you don’t think will fit with you long-term? For example, a million years ago I was engaged to a young fellow who was quite conservative. He’s a lovely guy, but as we aged, there was no way that our competing political and social views would have meshed. So, after we broke up, I totally weeded out anyone who was similar. And it wasn’t because I couldn’t fall in love with them or be happy, but because it would’ve been a harder road to hoe, too much energy to expend and setting myself up for more problems than I was interested in pursuing. Wouldn’t this be akin to that?
He is likely transphobic, but only a little bit. Not dating Shannon isn’t a transphobic act, but is evidence of transphobic beliefs. You’ll notice a lot posters left it at “you’re not attracted to who you’re not attracted to” because the posters who dove further started comparing Shannon to a man. A heterosexual man not dating a transwomen is not like a heterosexual man not dating a man. Saying it is is denying the transwoman’s gender.
I want to set you up with my fat friend. She’s really fat, but she’s awesome and smart and you guys have a **ton **in common. Let me just give her your number…
Oh, what’s that? You don’t want to go on a date with a fat girl? Just because you’ve never been attracted to a fat girl in the past, and don’t conceivably see yourself being attracted to a fat girl in the future? That’s definitely* dickish.
*definitely not
Sure, but the closer analogy is someone who once was fat, and it is just the knowledge that she used to be fat that’s bothering you. (Unless Roger really wants kids)
My analogy wasn’t perfect, but my point remains: nobody is obligated to date outside their preferences, whatever their preferences happen to be. I’m fat, and I think it’s OK to refuse to date someone who currently is/used to be fat. It doesn’t matter why and it doesn’t make you prejudiced. Anyone can refuse to date anyone for any reason. I’ve chosen not to date guys because they were ugly, or because they lived with their parents, or because they had a stupid haircut, or because they were religious, or because they had a kid, or because they were allergic to a bunch of things and I didn’t want to deal with it. That’s just a part of life, it’s not because I’m a insert prejudice-ist.
Good points. Consider that men, typically, are not romantically attracted to or interested in their sisters. Does this mean the average guy is sisphobic? Certainly not, plenty of guys have good relationships with their sisters. Just not in bed.
Also consider how we feel about children - most people are neither pedophiles nor people who particularly hate children (pedophobes?). You don’t have to be on one end or the other, you can be normal.
Is someone who is celibate by choice anthropophobic?
Would you tell a lesbian that she’s just uptight and she should consider dating men?
I would call a lesbian uptight if she refused to consider dating a transexual woman, for the same reason Roger is.
I would give a woman a pass on not wanting to date a transexual man, because they’re men.
Nobody’s obligated to date anybody, but a person’s selection criteria for a mate can tell us something about their character. If someone doesn’t date black people because he doesn’t want to dilute his superior Aryan heritage with the blood of subhuman mongrels… well, I’m comfortable in drawing a number of conclusions about that dude based on who he wants to date. On the other hand, someone who just doesn’t find dark complected skin attractive? Not a racist.
Similarly, there can be both transphobic and non-transphobic reasons for not dating a trans person. Wanting to have children was mentioned above as a valid reason to avoid a relationship with a transsexual. Also, people who date trans people are often themselves subject to violence and discrimination, and it’s entirely reasonable to want to avoid that. Those are both good, non-bigoted reasons why someone might not want to date trans people. “Trans people are sick freaks,” is not.
Somewhere in the middle there is the attitude most people are, I suspect, projecting onto Roger, which is something like, “I’ve got nothing against trans people socially, and fully support them politically, but the idea of sleeping with someone who used to have a penis makes me really uncomfortable, and I don’t want to do it.” I would argue that this position is transphobic. But I’d also argue that it’s perfectly okay. Prejudice needs to be evaluated in the context of the society in which it exists, and society right now is very strongly transphobic. The described attitude indicates someone who’s made significant personal progress against the ingrained social prejudice against trans people in American society, and that should be recognized, as should the fact that such personal changes do not happen overnight. The fact that Roger isn’t all the way there yet doesn’t mean he won’t ever get there.
I’m firmly of the opinion that everyone ought to suck at least one cock in their life, just to try it.
There’s a world of difference between a cell phone pic and a relationship. If someone showed a phone pic of a hot man to me, a gay man, and it turned out to be someone who wasn’t 100% male, my reaction to him may change. That doesn’t make me transphobic, it only means some things turn me on and other things don’t. We’re not directly responsible for our feelings. Even the simplest of them may come from complicated sources beyond our control.
That being said, it’s still possible that Roger is transphobic; we have no evidence of that in the OP’s brief narrative, but it’s possible. We also have no evidence of him being Jewish or left-handed or tall. So I voted “possibly but not likely.”
Remind me not to let you pick my dates in the future (which should be easy, since I’m happily married at the moment).
People are going to be attracted to who they are attracted to. I might disagree with my friend’s preferences, but they are his preferences, not mine. Nobody needs a reason for a preference. Roger has a preference, and that’s fine.
I think Shannon was obviously playing coy with the whole “is she trans” question, and this is not the time for that. There’s a reason dating sites include all kinds of info that doesn’t usually come up on the first date - it’s because wasting someone’s time on a date that isn’t going to work out is, well, a waste of time.
EDIT: I got the distinct impression that Shannon was having a “righteous indignation” moment where it was inappropriate, and that’s annoying in a friend and offputting to the point of avoidance for someone else.
This.
I voted the same way, for about the same reasons.
It’s true that a human being who was entirely free from the habit of pre-judging might well be capable of feeling sexual attraction to any and all fellow human beings.
But: we do pre-judge. It’s part of the way our brains work. So there are probably few (or no) people walking the planet who are genuinely able to feel attracted to everyone.
There’s also the unpleasant issue of entitlement. The way the scenario was written, “Mary” did seem to have an attitude of entitlement on behalf of fellow-transgender people. This is no more admirable in fictional people than it is in real people.
(To cite an extreme example: the recent Isla Vista shootings by the guy whose videos and manifesto proclaimed his belief that he was entitled to sex with the “hottest sorority” girls and any others that caught his eye. Again: an extreme example, and nothing to do with transgender issues; but it does illustrate how humans can come to feel entitled to sexual/romantic encounters with the person of their choice–regardless of how that person may feel about it.)
I wouldn’t expect a lesbian to do anything I wouldn’t do. Make of that what you will.
nm
my bad
tried a joke, but it fell flat.
pray for me…