As an aside from this discussion, I can’t believe that you actually hug people on a daily basis at your work. At the risk of sounding sexist, maybe that’s just a woman thing. I would never go into my work and hug other male or female colleagues.
Context matters.
I very much doubt that anyone’s trying to establish a blanket ban on, say, nurses or doctors or health care aides touching their patients in the workplace. It’s part of the job.
And I think it’s also a normal part of the job for teachers and other caretakers of small children to touch those children who signal, clearly, that they want to be touched. (And to keep their hands off any who don’t want to be touched, unless necessary for the safety of the child.)
But I don’t think any of that applies to adults having a meeting in a conference room. Or to most people on most sorts of jobs.
Weird but maybe relevant anecdote:
I went to my Urgent Care facility one day because I had a sore throat. And typically with a sore throat, they take a throat swab. And sometimes when they do that, I throw up. So normally, I’m ready to push the PA’s hands away if I’m close to throwing up. The last time I went, I had my hands ready, and the PA said “What are you doing?” And I explained to her that I might have to grab her hands to stop myself from throwing up. And she wasn’t too thrilled with that, and made me sit on my hands so I wouldn’t grab her to keep from throwing up.
Another poster suggested the the touch was to control her behavior. It could have been intended as a friendly gesture to assure her that he wasn’t being dismissive by telling her they didn’t have time to listen to her. So obviously intent seems to matter to some people.
And, yes, intent matters. It’s not the only thing that matter nor is it necessarily the most important thing that matters. But it matters. So does context and past behavior.
I respect your right not to be touched if you don’t want to be touched. If you were in Sally’s position what consequences should Mr. McFeely suffer for touching you lightly on the wrist?
Reductio ad absurdum arguments cannot be taken seriously. You’re not arguing in good faith.
I think you missed parts of this conversation where I pretty much said this. You might want to go back and read the thread before taking a single post out of context.
Man, what the fuck? Are you really going to escalate in a totally unreasonable way like that?
Lemme break this down, using my own words: humor, like touch, can absolutely go horribly wrong.
What you offered is an example of how humor can go horribly wrong, the joke equivalent of groping someone.
But just because there are shitty-ass jokes that should never be told in the workplace doesn’t mean a blanket ban on jokes is appropriate. It means a ban on offensive jokes, jokes that make people uncomfortable, is appropriate. Some jokes are obviously inappropriate to any remotely-socialized adult, and if they tell them, it’s a first-time firing offense. Other jokes might not be inappropriate for most people, but for a few folks they are, and in those cases, the joke-teller ought to be sensitive to that problem, but also the joke-hearer needs to recognize that it’s not the same thing.
And just because there are assault-type touches that should never be made in the workplace doesn’t mean a blanket ban on touches is appropriate. It means a ban on offensive touches, touches that make people uncomfortable, is appropriate. Some touches are obviously inappropriate to any remotely-socialized adult, and if they touch someone that way, it’s a first-time firing offense. Other touches might not be inappropriate for most people, but for a few folks they are, and in those cases, the toucher ought to be sensitive to that problem, but also the touchee needs to recognize that it’s not the same thing.
Don’t fucking escalate with a shitty misunderstanding of the analogy, okay?
As others have said, slight non-sexual touching has been a mainstay of human experience for thousands of years across almost all cultures. A pat on the back, a fist bump, a handshake, a tap on the shoulder, an “atta boy” tap on the thigh, etc. have all been considered normal types of human interactions.
Default rules of human interaction are not made for the most hypersensitive person. The hypersensitive person must deal with the rest of society. Because some people are extreme germaphobes, we do not mandate that public door handles are sterilized every hour. If you are that sensitive, then carry a handkerchief of a bottle of hand sanitizer.
And in any interaction between two adults, the first step in any problem solving is to have a discussion with the person who offended you, except in the most egregious cases. If the neighbor kid breaks your window with his baseball, do you immediately sue or call the police? Or do you walk over and have a talk with the kid’s parents first? Sadly in modern society, more people are doing the first thing.
And this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. Had the man interrupted Sally and said, “Sally, please finish up, we are over our allotted time” he might be raked over the coals for embarrassing her in front of the whole room and might be told that he should have tapped her on the wrist as a more subtle gesture.
The point is you only seem to want a ban on touches that YOU consider offensive. My point is, if you don’t touch anyone without their consent, then it’s a better for everyone.
You have a friend that you know appreciates hugs? Hug away. You have a coworker that you don’t know? Keep your hands to yourself. Again, it’s not hard. It actually requires less work for you.
No, he actually wouldn’t be “raked over the coals” for that.
Maybe you don’t realize it but are illustrating his exact point. Some communications are inappropriate and some are appropriate. Verbal and non-verbal both. All communication can be misunderstood and the same message may be welcome by most and offensive to some. Jokes may be very inappropriate and offensive. And they can be an important tool in getting a message across or a concept sold. Some people may find any joking in the workplace to be inappropriate. Some people may find some joking in the workplace is part of natural communication. Do the facts that some believe the former and that some jokes are clearly inappropriate mean that one must always get consent before trying to be witty?
You’d be wrong. I can confirm for you that this isn’t exactly a hot topic in HR forums, magazines, or seminars. Because tapping someone on the shoulder, the wrist, or other innocuous physical contact just isn’t a problem that comes up all that frequently. When I hear complaints about inappropriate touching it’s usually either more intimate touching (shoulder rub or something like that) or frequent contact. The closest conversations I’ve heard centered around hugging.
I dunno about you, but in MY third grade, we touched a LOT. We’d wrestle around in the sandbox, chase each other around with “Boogers” , play Tag, do dances, and a whole lot of other things. And we had great glorious fun, and learned to like our fellow humans.
And I am so sorry if you had a elementary school where no kid touched another kid. That sounds horrible. 
They can & should tell the other person “Sorry, I just don’t like being touched- at all.”
But you dont get to take your odd phobias to HR and get another person in trouble for a normal human behavior.
A Valid complaint?* “Bob touched me lightly on the shoulder to get my attention, so fire his ass?”* How the fuck is your weird phobia (haphephobia) a valid complaint?
Look, like talking to someone, light touching among people you know well is a normal human behavior.
And there are also people who dont like being talked to directly.
Or having eye contact.
Can you add “dont talk to me”? How about “dont make eye contact with me”? I am sorry if you have haphephobia, but that’s not normal. But it’s Ok to ask people to not touch you.
And adding in unwanted touching of genitals is going way off the deep end. :rolleyes:
Sexual touching is not appropriate in the workplace.
Do we add “dont talk to me” and “dont make direct eye contact”?
Touching is a normal part of human communication.
It always amazes me how many people in these threads insist that there should be no problem with them talking directly to people or making eye contact with people who don’t want that, and that they should not have to do anything whatsoever before placing talking to people or looking people in the eye that they either don’t know or only lightly know.
“Any touch would be out of line…I actually don’t care if anyone touches me anywhere …”
Haha. I had to check whether this was a zombie thread when I saw the title.
Zombies hate being touched - bit of 'em keep flaking off…