Islamophobia follows from observing Islam-majority nations

Ah, so we aren’t talking about a “universal pattern”, but rather a tendency.

As for Muslim nations “lagging the rest of the world”, it’s much more accurate to say that post-colonial countries in Africa and Asia are lagging the West, be they Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or a mix of these.

The odds are very low.

First, as I mentioned, even these “western democracies” that were called out (Albania and Bosnia) have a very large (over 20) percent of their citizenry favoring such Islamic-driven ideals such as stoning for slavery, or Sharia law for all.

Second, these two tiny nations represent a very small portion of the Muslim-majority world.

No; we are talking about a universal pattern.
Word floofing does not help you much when you are trying to obfuscate what the pattern of culture and laws is in Islam-majority nations.

You might refer to 20-80+ percent of a population wanting corporal punishment for theft or stoning for adultery as a “tendency” or “lagging the west,” but what ya got there is a pattern of culture and beliefs that is markedly antithetical to western culture and beliefs.

You might be able to find occasional pockets of exception here and there, but perhaps you’d like to review what a “pattern” is… :slight_smile:

I asked you to define this supposed pattern, and you still haven’t. How about starting there?

Culture:
Intolerance of the idea that an individual should be able to freely choose what to believe, and freely express it. Review attitudes toward apostasy, or reaction to cartoons mocking Islam, for example.
Broad subjugation of women; homophobia.

Laws:
Support for Sharia, and laws which reflect it

Perhaps you would like to advance an Islamic-majority country (of any size–i.e., one which represents a large-enough bloc of Muslims to be representative) and ask me to be more specific about a pattern difference between that one and a western democratic one…

I don’t think it will be a productive counter-argument for you to pretend there is no general difference in the patterns of culture and laws between the average Islam-majority nation and western democracies.

You can understand his “pattern perception” from this thread here: it is the pre conclusion via prejudiced ideas of inferiority and then the auto confirmation.

Now I’m confused; in the OP, you seem to argue that all Muslim-majority countries share the same culture, laws, and practices. This post, though, appears to argue instead that no Muslim-majority countries are Western democracies, which is quite a different claim.

Which is it?

No, I was simply pointing out your own strawman. Nobody has a problem with you criticizing Islam. I hate Islam too. The problem is when you take that criticism and somehow conclude that it is therefore okay to discriminate against Muslims. And that’s the part you conveniently left out of your “criticize Saudi Arabia = you’re an Islamaphobe” slogan.

Please, criticize Saudi Arabia all you want. But you can’t criticize them on humanitarian grounds and then turn around and discriminate against Muslims without being a hypocrite. And people get to point that hypocrisy out, whether you like it or not.

Which of these don’t apply to Trump’s America? Homophobia, rolling back women’s rights, “attitudes towards Muslims/atheists/non-Christians”, reactions to professional athletes who don’t stand for a song, support for biblical law and laws which reflect it, etc. Also, white conservatives commit far more terrorism on US soil than Muslims do.

Should we deport all the white dudes, or at least Trump supporters? Or are your views not consistent when applied to people similar to yourself instead of the easy scapegoat of scary brown foreigners?

Yeah, that’s the frightening thing about this current administration. It is approaching issues like the stereotypical “scary Islamic extremist” that is so vilified. Definitely not a good thing!

This is what reactionaries say when they’re called homophobes.

To be fair, you’re not going to see a lot of democracy in post-colonial states; or if it is technically a democracy it’ll be your typical strongman/ president for life setup. Doubly for for petrostates suffering from Resource Curse

Then I encourage you to use better, more precise language.

Here’s the data you requested. I hope you’ll agree that it’s not an extrapolation, or speculation on a hypothetical, nor my “feelings on the matter”.

Actually what I would say is that the fact that you’ve offered that up as a cite shows that you have no understanding at all of what this entire thread is about.

English may not be my first language, but I didn’t learn it last night.

Nah! Two different things. One is a religion with the backward culture that comes with it and the other is er, something else.

Being against this backwardness is perfectly healthy and wholesome.

Can you support your claim that all Muslims share the same culture?

Some of the plastic Muslims can of course be relatively liberal. But let’s not be kidding yourself.

So, “no” is your answer, then. Sounds about right, and par for the course.

I wasn’t making an argument either way, but I was struck by the similar wording. For example. I’m guessing those with less politicized fears say being afraid of heights, water, or spiders is rational too.