More Africans are Muslim than Christian…counting countries is arbitrary.
Still waiting for your point…I claimed that post-colonial countries have a lot of problems, and that Palestine would be no different. Do you reject that?
Sub-Saharan Africa is a different animal than Islamic Africa; for most of history, Islamic Africa’s population centers were unified under Caliphate (Muslim) control. Sub-Saharan Africa was actually victimized by Europeans.
Sorry that Muslims can’t play the victim card very convincingly. Hence why post-colonialism, aka academic communism, fails there. Ditto with the Palestinians and the non-Africa Arabs. Europeans were barely there in terms of time compared to Caliphate.
Wait, are you actually denying that North and West Africa was colonized by European nations? Or asserting that this was some harmless, non-victimizing form of colonialism?
Here’s the thing: Africa notwithstanding, the Palestinian Territories are unquestionably under colonial control by Israel, and thus would face the same issues as other former colonies.
“Academic communism”? Wtf?
Sorry not going to engage in another back and forth Israel thread. Just briefly and I’ll withdraw.
Zionist American Jew here who has a been a big fan of Obama on Israel issues except that I think he should have been firmer with Bibi.
Friends do not let friends drive drunk. Israeli leadership has done and continues to do stupid ass shit and unconditional support enables their stupidity.
Yes there is plenty of stupidity and hate to go around. Posturing prevents informed self-interest from prevailing.
Does “colonial administration” count? (As opposed to actual large colonies of immigrants?) Pretty hefty French presence in North Africa, and some Spanish presence also.
Yes.
Only for Jews. I’ve mentioned before that if you really want to be fully informed about the Israeli-Palestinian problem you should read Blood Brothers by Elias Chacour. Chacour and his family lived in Kafr Bir’im when Israel declared itself. From Wiki:
*Kafr Bir’im was captured by the Haganah on October 31, 1948 during Operation Hiram. In November 1948 most of the inhabitants were expelled until the military operation was complete, and none were subsequently permitted to return…
In 1953, the residents of former Kafr Bir’im appealed to the Supreme Court of Israel to return to their village. The court ruled that the authorities must answer to why they were not allowed to return. On September 16, 1953 the village was razed and 1,170 hectares of land were expropriated by the state.*
Israel is not an innocent party here. Both sides need to make concessions and the first one is that Israel needs to stop taking Palestinian land for settlements and give regular Palestinians a real (e.g. realistic) avenue for justice.
Freedom House says Israel is the only free country in the Middle East, and nearly the entire MENA region (Tunisia has been rated free for 3 years, let’s see if it lasts). All countries’ ethnic and religious minorities face discrimination, but that’s not necessarily antithetical to being free, unless of course America is not a free country, Canada is not, etc.
I think what I’m saying is best summed up by this Israel-non-Jew:
Keyword there is are. Colonialism in Africa began in the mid-to-late 19th century and ended mostly in the early 20th century, a time when the Muslim population was far less than it is now.
There’s a bunch of problems that are almost insoluble.
Netanyahu has a diplomatic reputation for being utterly unreliable in crafting agreements and is basically regarded as an arrogant, manipulative liar by those who should be his allies. It makes it tough to get agreements done if even your allies don’t trust your word.
Re being inclusive integrationist fantasies aside Arab - Palestinian society is way too primitive and tribal to be integrated peacefully side by side with a society based on western values. It’s oil and water, there’s no blending. The vast majority of the Arab common man demographic is very poorly educated in a western context.
Arab states are still fucking idiots when it comes to effectively waging modern war. It’s like monkeys with guns. Israel has no real fear of any Arab nation regardless of size short of those going atomic. A handful of ISIS soldiers using rudimentary tactics can cause even the largest Arab states to panic and scramble.
The majority of Israeli’s (though not all) really are quite openly racist WRT the Palestinians. Israel is effectively an apartheid state and this scenario will only get worse if the Arabs keep out populating them. At some point in the future the growing population demographic imbalance is going to cause Israelis to go full retard and dial the defacto apartheid to 11. Only at that point will the US step back and take stock of their behavior.
Tell me, how would people react if tomorrow the US passed a law declaring all American Jews had to carry ID cards specifically identifying them as Jews?
Would that lead people to question how “free” America was?
For that matter, how would you feel about such a law?
Didn’t you say that you Helen Thomas’s claim that “the Jews” should “Get out” of Israel and “go home” was “not anti-Semitic” and also that it was a “reasonable” suggestion or have I misremembered?
If so, do you still hold this view?
I ask because the answer could help us regarding your analysis of the situation.
Did you at least read about Chacour? Can you agree that Israel was in the wrong in that situation? Because if all you’re going to do is defend Israel no matter what than we’ll never have peace.
If we’re going to swap anecdotal outside opinions I’ll trump yours with this one: Jimmy Carter, while a poor president, is perhaps the most knowledgeable, impartial observer on the Israeli-Palestinian crises. No one has done more for peace in that region (such as it is) than Carter. He wrote a whole book likening it to apartheid.
Clinton did a lot more, actually. All Carter did was negotiate a peace that Egypt already wanted. Clinton almost got the Israelis and Palestinians to make a huge agreement in 2000. Carter’s “talents” tend to involve seeing the world the way the enemies of freedom do. Empathy with the devil is useful to an extent, but it only helps make peace if the devil wants peace, as Sadat did.
If we were basing the judgement on just those two actions I might agree but Carter has been deeply involved in the Middle East since he became ex-president.
Wow, Clinton almost did something. That is impressive.
Almost accomplishing something hard is more noteworthy than being there when something easy is accomplished. Sadat wanted a deal.
not to mention, Jimalaise Carter almost ruined the deal between Israel and Egypt.
Carter is invaluable. If you want to know how the despots in the region think, no one understands their point of view better than Jimmy Carter.
true, and given his unpatriotic comments about America being an “oligarchy,” he’s just bitter America rejected his second term proposition in a landslide.
As you know, I’m a Democrat, and I think this guy’s a loser. Wish the Dems had nominated Scoop Jackson in '76.