I don’t hear Naxox_dec.2002 complaining, about either the observation I made or the underlying fact.
Please name the European nation we are talking about so I have an opportunity to refute your allegation.
Because you “fear” a large & powerful Jewish lobby, huh? All the other large powerful lobbies are ok, I guess. And there you go again, with the “Jewish” jazz, even after its been noted, over and over, that Jews and the state of Israel are not one and the same.
You give not a shit about the state of Israel. You hate and fear Jews and want them out of Europe. Or, rather, you don’t want them back in. You’ve pretty much owned up to it, but why don’t you just go ahead and be honest and stop pretending that you are just a critic of Israel.
Coldie said in the first page that Naxox is posting from the non-EU country of Norway. That’s what makes this kid particularly laughable.
Yo, Naxox, we’ve pretty much disproved the whole concept of a “Jewish lobby” in the U.S. Do you have any proof at all of such an existance or are you totally full of hot air. If you want to play here, you’re going to have to prove your assertions.
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Show us where there is a Jewish Lobby in the U.S. This is a different thing than a pro-Isreal lobby.
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Show us how allowing Israel in the E.U. will somehow increase the presence of a Jewish Lobby in your country.
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This one is just for my curiosity. Have you ever truely interacted with Jewish people in your life?
Haj
Just a comment:
- In the Nordic countries the lobbying is not “allowed”. It makes more harm than good, because the voters reacts quite hard on such.
hajario wrote:
Why?
Did You think Norway lives in a vacuum?
EU has it’s effects all over Europe, as does some decisions made in US also reflect into Europe. Even into Norway.
I hold with Naxox in the point that he made about the crisis in ME.
As we already earlier written, the “Jewish lobby” is an improperiate expression. It should be “pro-Israelian lobby”, if You call it something.
Anyhow, I am against any kind of lobbyism, but I know that there is a lobbying going on in EU all the time.
For me, that is from a as small country as Norway, the whole EU-parliment and it’s work and decisions (partly made after lobbying) are too far away from me as a voting citizen.
Yeah, Henry, but in your world the EU has some magical control over Russia’s parliament. Methinks it’s not Norway that’s living in a vacuum.
Norway, eh?
Islamic Council – whose charter involves defending Islamic and minority rights
Secular Humanists – claiming 1.5% of the population, stressing multiculturalism and non-theist ethics
Jesuit Catholics – doing the Jesuit Catholic thing
B’nai Brith’s, Keren Kajemet Le’Israel, WIZO – All using their influence to promote the principles of the Jewish .2% of the Norwegian population.
There are plenty of non-secular groups in Norway with an interest in influencing legislature.
What there isn’t is a religious group operating with some form of collective hive-mind to subvert the majority. If that is your definition of a group that lobbies, then maybe you are thinking of Amway or the clams.
this is almost laughable and where shall I start.
the most funny moment here was the jesuit catholic. This groups was banned in this country until the 1950’s (I think). I can’t say I know of a single person which is jesuit here. I know there are som catholics, but I have never heard that they are involved in lobbyism.
Secular Humanists – probably a bit closer there, but not what can call a powerfull lobbygroup. They work mostly through media.
Islamic Council – about the same as secular humanist I believe. muslims are a growing number here (unfortunately), but their influence are margial compare to their number (fortunately).
“B’nai Brith’s, Keren Kajemet Le’Israel, WIZO – All using their influence to promote the principles of the Jewish .2% of the Norwegian population.”
There is no way that the jews here make up as much of 2% of the population. I would say that they are under 0,2%. There are however other groups and organizations that support the jews (especially christian ones).
The lobby groups that my be powerfull is the industrial groups, but lobby groups aren’t so powerfull here as in US and EU.
We have however a ethnic group (the saami) that have their own parliament with limited influence.
Monty, You wrote:
“Yeah, Henry, but in your world the EU has some magical control over Russia’s parliament.”
How did You come to such a conclusion? Can You rephrase something that I have written or what?
Btw., it’s called “duma”, but that does not matter, I understood what You meant by Russia’s parliment".
Waverly
There is tens of thousends of assosiations in the Nordic countries. According to the law, we need three citizens to register an assossiation. Then we leave an A4 to the nearest registration-place. (In Finland more than 400 registering places). So it takes about one cup of coffee to do it.
There is all kind of assosiations. Everything from religious ones, to “The assosiation for Worldshampionship in boot-throwing”, “Beer-drinkers north of the North Circel”.
One very famous one, been in TV all over the world: “The assosiation for Worldshampionship of carrying the wife”.
Also “Free alcohol and broader streets” (Broader streets is needed, if the former gets true.)
Assosiations is not the same as lobbyists.
If an assossiation want to say something to the parliment, we do it like this: We put up a delegation and leave an address to the parlimentary parties that have formed the government and copies of the address to the opposition parties.
That means also that all addresses (papers) are public.
I would not call that lobbying.
Henry
Lobbying procedures in Norway.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/government/devolution/ppdp-06.asp
BTW, lobbyists to the European Parliament have to register.
And in Finland…
Naxox,
I believe the secular humanists were successful in getting multicultural topics added to school curriculums as earlier as the 1970’s. Even if this claim is false, how else would they attempt to forward this goal if not through lobbying legislature?
As for the Islamic Council, you correctly recognize that they function like the secular humanists, so where is the disagreement here? I won’t comment on your seeming repulsion that people of this religion share your country.
Perhaps you were confused by the N. American decimal point, but I did indicate that the Jewish population was 1/5 of 1%. Since you seem to recognize that there are groups that support Jewish interests, again you seem to be agreeing with me.
I never made any mention as to how powerful or successful these groups were at lobbying, I was just demonstrating that they exist. Perhaps the best example is the Saami, who you yourself mention. In short, when you stated I was wrong on all three counts, you knew that I was in fact correct.
Henry B,
Agreed, not every group necessarily lobbies, but when a group has stated political goals that they work toward like the Islamic Council, Secular Humanists, or the Keren Kajemet Le’Israel, I think it’s fair to call them lobbyists.
http://ud39.mogul.no/cgi-bin/wbch3.exe?p=4835
According to http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_252.html there are probably between about 35,000 and 40,000 Catholics in Norway.
Around 90% of Norwegians are Evangelical Lutherans.
And according to this Adherents.com - Online Payday Loans - Same Day Payout in 1998 there were a grand total of 1,500 Jews in Norway.
Out of a total population of 4,481,162 (July 2000 est.)
Somehow I don’t think either the Catholics or the Jews have much of a lobbying presence in Norway. 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Waverly *
** Since you seem to recognize that there are groups that support Jewish interests, again you seem to be agreeing with me.
but I would not call them an important lobby group. Most of them are counted as religious fundamentalists that aren’t taken serious.
There was more common for more normal people to support Israel and the jewish case before, but that changed back in the 70’s.
Over 50% of the pm’s in our parliament was member of a org. called “Venner av Israel” (friends of Israel). Not many are member of that org. anylonger
Lobbyism are a rather new thing in politics. Such groups where not so relevant some 20-30 years ago as they are today (don’t know about USA)
Not much political presence is not the same as having no political presence.
What I was trying to demonstrate was that lobbyists exist independent of whether Israel sits on the map in the Middle East, on the Horn of Africa, or in the Sea of Tranquility; and will continue to exist whether Israel enters the EU, NATO, or the Intergalactic Federation. ;j
Naxox,
The backpeddling is unbecoming. Either wear you tinfoil hat with pride, or put it away. Whatever their size, success rate, or origin, are there groups supporing Jewish interests or no?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Waverly *
** Since you seem to recognize that there are groups that support Jewish interests, again you seem to be agreeing with me.
but I would not call them an important lobby group. Most of them are counted as religious fundamentalists that aren’t taken serious.
There was more common for more normal people to support Israel and the jewish case before, but that changed back in the 70’s.
Over 50% of the pm’s in our parliament was member of a org. called “Venner av Israel” (friends of Israel). Not many are member of that org. anylonger
Lobbyism are a rather new thing in politics. Such groups where not so relevant some 20-30 years ago as they are today (don’t know about USA)
Look, asshole, if you’re going to post something on a message board, you might want to try and realize that it’s going to be there for the world to see. You posted this
on page three of this thread.
“Duma” translates into English as “Parliament.” Just because you are one step above [sub](possibly below)[/sub] a complete illiterate doesn’t mean that I am.
Mommy, I can’t sleep. There are Elders of Zion under my bed, and Jehovah’s Witnesses in the closet.
Oh, and from the same link . . . I thought this was rather curious in light of Naxox’s assertion that there’s no such thing as “lobbying” in Norway:
Monty
I do not know about all of Your news-servises, but some of them uses the word “duma”, because that has been the historical name. But I am not arguing about it.
In other languages, other than Russian, we here in Europe use the word “duma”.
Monty!
I am very sorry to say this, but You are illiterate.
Even a child would finds out from my posts in this thread, that I am speaking about Finland.
Monty
I know this is the Pit, but if You have any upbringing at all, You do not begin a conversation with calling unknown people names.
But, yes I can be illiterate in English, when I write it, but please post me in which other languages I can send You more information how to read English.
We might have other languages in common, languages that I write better.