Israeli Rocket Attacks

I thought I would post some links because I realize people can call my info into question as I don’t work for a major news organization. I will link to a few articles by people who can write better than me but represent my viewpoints, who do work for major news organizations.

Here is a good op-ed which represents the Israeli viewpoint, IMHO. Quite empassioned. From the Washington Post, Oct 6, by Charles Krauthammer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21390-2000Oct6.html

Here is another good article which IMHO represents the view of the Israeli left. Again, Washington Post, Oct 11, Lee Hockstader.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45823-2000Oct10.html

Here is a good op-ed from today’s Jerusalem Post about what to expect from the Israeli side at Monday’s summit at Sharm-el-Sheikh.

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2000/10/15/Opinion/Editorial.13727.html

Igllady said:

This is certainly true of some Palestinians, though it is also certainly not true of others. (This becomes a problem when you speak of “Palestine” as if it had a will of its own.)

A number of years back, on the old FidoNet POLITICS conference, there was a Palestinian who argued with a number of other people about the Middle East (the name he went by was Ghazy Kader). At one point, I asked him point-blank if statehood for the Palestinians was enough, or if he wanted Israel erased from the map. He refused to give me a straight answer. I at least give him credit for honesty (he could have simply said it was the first and nobody would have known differently), but by avoiding the question several times over, I think the answer was fairly clear. Statehood was simply not enough for him.

Here comes that question about “Palestine” again. Do you mean the land, or the people? If the land, what happens to the people? If the people, are you really advocating wiping out everybody because of some terrorists?

Igllady, go away. This thread was doing just fine without you.

The above is from the latest AP report on AOL.
I suppose they need to redeem it from the outrageousness of a Jew walking on Jewish holy land.
Truly beyond belief.

This thread seems to have evolved somewhat (as they are wont to do), and seems to have lost view of the OP a bit.

I’m not defending terrorism or rioting, and I think nobody here is. If someone is throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at you, I would expect you to shoot back (sure, it’s not a good thing, but you have little choice). But * rocket attacks on non-military targets? *

They rocketed a TV station. Sure it may be broadcasting inflammatory things, but then again so is Radio Free Cuba, and how many of us would put up with Castro bombing it? Granted, there are limits to freedom of speech a la Olliver Wendel Holmes (this is, of course, assuming we extend our domestic principles abroad anyway). However, this seems rather excessive and repressive.

If a radio station is telling people to take aggressive action against the state, is that not at least in part a military role?

In other words, did the station make themselves a military target?

As I recall, we bombed Milosovec’s radio and TV stations at least once or twice.

you know, i really don’t fucking give a shit.
a jewish homeland? i don’t care.
palestinian independence? who cares.
these idiots in the middle east can rock each other to death, and i don’t fucking care.

there is no jewish god, and there is no palestinian allah. all i know is that i like having sex and making 100k/year.

seriously… clinton should just ignore the fucking insanity which is the middle east. have a full-on war and kill each other over dumb crap, i don’t care. have at it.

go cards,

Thank you for your insightful commentary. I’m sure we will all sit back and mull over your opinions in great detail for the rest of the day.

>> you know, i really don’t fucking give a shit

So why did you post?

ALright, after reading over the responses and shadowing through quite a few posts, yes, I tend to agree that Israel, if not totally justified, was probably not unprecedented in choosing its targets; however, I still think that it would have done itself a great service by not calling the attacks “revenge”.

To you and I, it may look bad to call it revenge. But for them, it is making a point: You attack us, and we will get revenge.

Besides, everybody knew what it was, so why lie about it?

I think you have a legitimate right to take out a radio station if said radio station was repeatedly, uncritically broadcasting a sermon of a Gaza imam who called for “true believers to kill Jews, wherever they may be found.” Keep it mind it was broadcasting to people who also perhaps aren’t thinking quite rationally. The radio station in serving to rile up a crowd for Jewish blood, becomes as much of a military target as anything is nowadays.

So I ask again, suppose Cuba were to have some riots going on, would anybody here be ok with Castro bombing a few targets in Florida (Radio Free Cuba included) because the Cuban exiles there were inciting anti-government riots?

Would I have a problem with it? Hell, yes! But then, we’re not in a state of war with Cuba, are we? The Israelis have been in a de facto state of war with the Palestinians.

I agree with David B.

Let’s say the radio station was causing a state of mob mentality in Florida by which Americans were crossing over into Cuba to throw Molotov cocktails at government installations. The mob, on insistence from the radio station, took 2 Cuban soldiers and brutally beat them to death and then mutilated them. Yes, I would feel that Cuba would have every right to take out the radio station. Yes, the US would probably consider it an act of war. But I think the radio station would have had it coming to them…

Well then, at least you’re consistent–which I can respect more, even if I disagree with you…

So who are they declaring war on? If Arafat and his cabinet can’t control their people and stop them from rioting - which seems to be much of their excuse - then they cannot legitimately claim to represent the government of Palestine, and in point of fact Palestine would therefore not be any sort of government or state. You can’t declare war on another country unless it’s actually a country.

Israel, and in fact the world, has gone to some length to grant Arafat and the Palestinians a measure of pseudo-state status; that’s why they have police forces and governmental structures. If it’s now the case that they’re incapable mof actually running the territory they’re responsible for, that status is a complete sham. You cannot claim to be a government if you don’t have any influence over the people you claim to represent.

If Arafat isn’t running Palestine, then Israel is running Palestine. And you can’t declare war on yourself.

John Corrado sayeth:

**
I got that information from a personal email sent by an Israeli Jew to a friend of his in the States. He was attempting to alert American Jews to things happening in the Middle East that were not reported in the general press. Of course, I can’t provide any third-party substantiation to his claims… that’s the whole point. If this is unsatisfactory, I will withdraw those claims from the debate.

**

I am not going to answer your question directly… I want to use it as a springboard. You speak of Sharon’s “inciting” of the Palestinians. This is an idea that gets a lot of play in the Media. I think it is an example of how the talking heads on TV get to us without us knowing it. Look at CNN… they never refer to Sharon in print without the prefix, “The hawkish…” The media never discusses the violence in the region without giving a body count and pointing out that the vast majority of dead are Palestinian. Other examples exist.

The idea that Sharon is in any way responsible for the riots is another example of this phenomenon. I think people just swallowed it, without considering the logic of blaming one man for the actions of thousands of others. Consider the following editorial (formatting and emphasis are, as always, mine).

Exerpted from Carnage For The Cameras by Robert L. Pollock, The Wall Street Journal (October 7, 2000):

Are you saying that his situation was planned?
I thought a French journalist took the tape. A journalist would be out looking for something like that.

Coupla’ things:

First of all, I am saying nothing about Durrah. As I explained in my post, the section you quoted includes the words of Robert L. Pollock, a writer who works for the Wall Street Journal.

Second of all, no, I don’t think Pollack implies that Durrah’s death was planned. I think that he means that Durrah didn’t “just happen” to be there; rather he was taking part in a violent protest, and the people who instructed him to participate knew that, if he was hurt or killed, his age would engender sympathy for the cause.

Either way, I did not post Pollack’s article to discuss Durrah - I posted it in support of the idea that blaming Sharon for the Palestinian’s actions is absurd.