Palestinian Terrorists have targeted and killed many innocent Israelis.
The Israeli Gov. has never claimed to target innocent Palestinians but their direct actions have killed far more innocent Palestinians than all of the Palestinian Terrorists have killed combined.
Are these organizions like two rival street gangs bent on revenge, territory, and support(money). I believe so and think that they do nothing but help to radicalize the poplulations on both sides. Let me know how you feel
Anyone fighting over a worthless plot of sand and rock like the West Bank isn’t too bright IMO. 
I mean, geez, there are so many other places in the world that would be much cooler to live in…
Boy is the OP ridiculous.
Lets see. Is the US and the Taliban two sides of the same coin for the same reason?
How about the US and Nazi Germany. That works too.
Are you seriously proposing that a Democratic country which has, for years tried to find a peaceful solution to a problem which they did not create, should now sit back and let its citizens be massacred?
This is really the CENTRAL problem with the Islamist arguments. In every case they excuse their murderous ways with the explanation that ‘you caused it’ except that in each case, that which YOU were doing was trying to defend yourself from their atrocity.
The difference is so stark that it is midblowing.
Palestinians terrorists intetionally target innocents. Israelis surgically target murderers and terrorists.
Every Israeli action is calculated as a way to prevent further murders. Every Palestinian attack is intended to sow terror.
Palestinians cheer and applaud when innocents are killed. Israelis call for an inquiry.
The Israelis are simply trying to be left alone. They were attacked before a state existed, they were attacked when it was founded and they continue to be attacked. Of course now the excuse that is found to massacre Jews is the ‘occupation’ when the Jews were being killed and pushed toward the sea long before there were any ‘occupied territories’.
Oh, so what should they do you say?
Stop settlements? Guess what? At Camp David they offered to entirely dismantle 95% of them.
Stop ‘occupying’ Palestinians? 95% of all Palestinians live under PA rule and this was only meant to be an interim step before all of them were. Unfortunately Arafat rejected the plan.
Stop the blockades and checkpoints? There were almost no blockades and checkpoints before the Intifada. There wasnt a need. Blockades and checkpoints are a security measure intended to put a halt to mass murder. the intifada stops, the checkpoints stop.
There is nothing Israel can do. They have tried to offer peace, and got slapped in the face.
Your analogy could be applied to any two warring nations, except in this case, one is trying to stop the murder of innocents with an unfortunate death of a few civilians, while the other sows the terror by intentionally targeting innocents.
It is this kind of simplistic thought that causes innocents to lose their lives due to protests from those who would not have them defend it.
Aw TQMshirt, don’t be too hard on him. This is a situation in which the two sides are so busy sowing the seeds of confusion that unless you ignore the noise and look strictly at the actions of the two sides, you can easily be persuaded by the impassioned pleas from the PA and Arafat and their sympathizers.
That having been said, have you heard the comments from the Palestinian Authority cabinet members regarding Israel’s retaliation for the weekend suicide bombings? They’ve actually said, in full sincere mode, straight-faced, that Ariel Sharon’s response was an attempt to derail the peace process and constituted terrorism by the Israeli government. I sometimes wonder, when I see such blatant lying like this, why a bolt of lightning doesn’t strike the person dead on the spot. Of course, having the reporters be a little more assertive in disallowing such ‘spin’ would also be helpful. I mean, picture this, what would happen if the next time some political blowhard began spouting obvious rhetorical b.s. the press fell down laughing? And the next time?
I’m no fan of the PLO or Arafat, but I’ll be damned before I defend Sharon.
Aha - This Sharon fellow - you know much about him?
Oh yeah, there was that thing where Christian Arabs massacred Muslim Arabs and the Arab world tried to demonize Sharon for it because the Christian arabs were aligned with the Israelis.
It is always very telling when the only thing that they have on Sharon is a story where Arabs killed Arabs. I suppose if he were such a demon he might have actually done something a little more evil.
Oh, yeah, I remember - he had the gall, as a Jew, to visit the holiest site to Judaism. What an evil fellow.
It always amuses me to compare the so-called ‘sins’ of the Jews that are used an convenient excuses to massacre them with the acts of those who use these excuses to oppress them.
Looks like the wheel of history just keeps on turning.
Two sides of same coin? No.
Yin and Yan? Yes.
From the BBC (my bold):
“More than 600 Palestinians and 170 Israelis have been killed in the violence of the last 12 months.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1568000/1568463.stm
And body count says a lot about strategy and morals. Yep. You’ve convinced me. The 9/11 terrorists killed 4000 Americans and the military action of the Americans following have probably killed many many more Taliban soldiers. Let us apply the same reasoning.
I’m afraid so is a chunk of your response. The OP is merely an extension of some current schools of thought that hold Israel as responsible for innocent deaths as Palestinian terrorists.
Rather different scenario you bring up–I trust it is not necessary to outline the huge and important differences here.
No it doesn’t, it’s a deliberately obtuse example.
That is a pedestrian and simplistic presentation of the problem. This “innocence” spin would work on the uninformed or the under 12. That is not to say Israel hasn’t made attempts at solving this problem peacefully, mind you, I just disagree with your characterization of the situation.
This is equally applicable to both Israel and PA. The minor difference is that the PA has gone to certain lengths to try to distance themselves from acts of terror, while Israel as a sovereign state mobilizes against ragtag groups of civilians and thinks little of it.
Or those they CLAIM to be such, and their strikes aren’t that surgical, unless they like performing surgery on schoolchildren. In end effect the result is terror perpetrated by the state. You may believe that Israel is simply carrying out operations against terrorists, but their frequently counter-productive actions indicate they are merely asserting their superiority to influence future negotiations.
Even if your claim is true (it isn’t accurate on the Israeli side), what is the end result? Terror in both cases, except that Israel is also responsible for oppression, occupation, human rights abuses, etc. I do not wish to condone the methods of extremist Palestinians, but this is not a case of two elements at open war–you complain of massacre of Israelis, but the numbers suggest the opposite.
Correction: Israelis respond by moving tanks, helicopters and fighter jets against an unarmed civilian population, and to assassination as a political tool.
Why are you pulling out this persecution complex? You can’t be suggesting that everyone hates the poor Jews and that is why these bad things happen?
Now, I would definitely have liked to see Arafat accept Barak’s offer, but to refuse it was within his right and merely a step in the negotiation process (you don’t accept the first offer). It is too bad that Barak was defeated in the meanwhile and that Israel hawk Sharon was elected, because it was easy to see progress being made with Barak. There is no progress whatsoever with Sharon–indeed, he faces dissension even in his own government for his heavy-handed approach to the problem.
That kind of thought process may be used to rationalize absolutely anything.
the problem here is that palestinians think they deserve the “occupied” land, when in fact they don’t. I saw one palestinian on TV tonight saying that “occupation is an act of terrorism.” No. First of all, there is no occupied land. Israel captured that land in a defensive war. Calling it “occupied” implies that it belongs to someone else. It belongs to israel, and only israel. Texas is not occupied mexican land. Controlling your soverign land is NOT an act of terrorism. Blowing up innocent people is.
Israel is 100% right, the “palestinians” are 100% wrong. There is no same coin here. Israel has every right to defend herself as well - if there is collateral damage, it is no more “terrorism” than the collateral damage in Afghanistan caused by our war against the taliban/bin laden.
Wow, I started quite the disscusion. I can almost feel the flames on my back. Please lets not turn this into a shouting match. I hate it when people drown me by the sheer mass of their replies.
My objection would be not of Taliban soldiers fighting then dying. But if Americans during their search for revenge had killed over 12000 innocent Afgani (three times of those innocent that have died in 9/11).
If just in the past year the Israeli government had killed over three times as innocent people then all the Palestinians terrorists have killed combined, maybe we have to start asking ourselves how is this better?
My mind did change about one thing, the statement:
Palestinian Terrorists = The Israeli Government
is compeletly wrong, in terms of the sheer bulk of deaths:
Palestinian Terrorists < The Israeli Government
Also another thing I hope that people don’t take this as accepting Palestinian Terrorists it is not. What it really is, is not accepting Israeli(government no less) terrorists.
Why do you assume that the Palestinians who died were innocent?
Wasn’t it the Palestinians who purposely put their children in the line of fire (and when they got killed, it gained public support for them)?
I’m asking, I dunno.
Just having more dead on your side does not make you right. In fact, it is totally irrelevant. It might make you stupid though because it shows you are fighting a losing battle and instead of trying to find a solution you continue to fight. And I have to question the morality of the Palestinians who are so proud of sending young men, kids, to fight and be shot at. Those parents are fanatics and I cannot support such culture. The way I see it, the Palestinians are asking for it and they are getting it.
Let’s take a look at something else - all the people who complain about Israel not doing enough for peace, please explain what the Palestinians have done for peace, other than blow people up for peace.
It is a serious question. What exactly have Palestinian Authorities done? They can’t control terrorists in their territory, they can’t come to agreement (no matter what Israel offers), they will not or can not take any of the steps necessary to even gain a foothold. What, exactly, have they done?
They are just as innocent as any Israeli. Why did all 600 of them deserve death?
Well no, I am afraid you are mistaken. Palestinian parents do not send their children to shot, just so that they can earn public support. That is prety morbid resoning.
Fighting a losing battle? Is that not the only battle worth fighting in?
“the Palestinians are asking for it”? Please come back when you regain your senses. What the palestinians are asking is that it stop.