(bolding mine)
The fact that Israel is always making the headlines in the medias being of course irrelevant :rolleyes:
Give for 20 years as much media coverage about the situation in Israel as there has been during the last 20 years about the very vaguely similar situation in Sri Lanka and see how many threads there will be about Israel, and how many people will know what’s happening there, let alone have an opinion about it.
You’re mixing cause and effect here.
“Wiped out” implies that they were slaughtered.
They weren’t. Most converted because being a Muslim conferred one greater privileges.
In fact, I’m probably the descendant of Zoroastrians who converted to Islam.
I’m certainly not an apologist for the Muslim conquests of that time period, but they weren’t remotely as brutal as the Europeans who expanded into Africa, Asia and the Americas.
While the Abbasids did persecute Zoroastrians, most of the persecution was done by the Safavids, who were a Persian, and not an Arab dynasty. And some of the Safavid Shahs did do some forcible conversions, like Husayn, who’s general intolerance led to his overthrow.
Let’s do a little experiment. Grab some of your coworkers or friends who are not political or news junkies and ask them the following:
Are they aware that some time around 1948 hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs were displaced (were “kicked out”, “expelled”, whatever terminology you want to use) from where they lived during Israel’s War of Independence?
Are they aware around that same time hundreds of thousands of Jews from Arab countries surrounding Israel were displaced (again, “kicked out”, “expelled” etc) from where they lived?
Are they aware that around the same time 18 million Hindus and Muslims in what was British India were displaced (“kicked out”, “expelled” etc) from where they lived?
Are they aware that around the same time millions of ethnic Germans were displaced (“kicked out”, “expelled” etc) from where they lived?
Are they aware that Israel has acquired control of some territories during its wars and is occupying them now?
Are they aware that Russia has acquired control of some territories during its wars (Kuril Islands, Karelian Peninsula, etc.) and is occupying them now?
Are they aware that there are Palestinian Arab refugees?
What other refugees can they name?
I would bet you that your coworkers will know about all that stuff related to Israel (and probably have an opinion about it), will not know anything about Jews expelled from Arab countries, and will be woefully ignorant about the other topics.
Wanna try it?
Maybe. Ibn Khaldun did, though, as I pointed out, identify his ancestry as being of “the best of the Arabs”. You’re right, though, that we identify large groups of people as Arab who wouldn’t have identified themselves that way in the past.
God I hate having to link a dictionary definition for you, but wiped out:
Phrasal Verb:
wipe out
Well as long as we’re doing dictionary definitions…
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wipe+out
Note the lack of “completely”.
The key phrase being that he identified “his ancestry” as being Arabs which is dramatically different than identifying himself as one.
Similarly many Americans are the descendants of Englishmen but don’t view themselves as being English.
You’re not doing yourself any favors.
de·struc·tion
n.
1.
a. The act of destroying.
b. The condition of having been destroyed.
an·ni·hi·la·tion
n.
1.
a. The act or process of annihilating.
b. The condition of having been annihilated; utter destruction.
I assume I don’t have to explain the meaning of murder, and how it results in the complete absence of life.:rolleyes:
Yep. Destroying. Zoroastrians were destroyed by Arab conquest.
I think you have the Muslims(not Arabs) confused with the Americans and the Spaniards.
The Zoroastrians weren’t “destroyed” at least not in the common understanding of the word.
Most simply converted to Islam, but to this day there are still large numbers living in Iran with legal recognition and protection of the Iranian government since they’ve traditionally been classified as “people of the book”.
In fact most Iranians, including myself, are almost certainly descendants of Zoroastrians.
Were the Zoroastrians Indo-European?
The way I see it following are reasons why Israeli-Palestinians conflict persists in North-American media:
First and foremost, the influence and power held by Jewish community in North America whose factors range from being overrepresented in politics, media of all kinds, law & medical profession and academia. All these things combined form a very powerful aspect of socio-political milieu that is all encompassing and can reach deep and wide. Tightly related to that is the very strong relationship that Jewish community in NA has toward Israel and Israel’s political landscape including illusions of a geopolitical importance and very special illusion of an ally.
One of the most convoluted and concerning notions promulgated lately is that somehow the reason why Israel is often represented in media is the idea that it is “enemies” of Israel, the anti-Israel crowd commonly referred to as veiled anti-Semites that bring these issues and, part of “fighting” against that prejudice and irrational attitudes toward Israel is the fact that corrections have to be published everywhere and everyday so that people have a proper understanding of the conflict to prevent the “anti-Israel” or “anti-Zionist” and ultimately “anti-Semitic” elements of “forcing” their views on the conflict. So, the story goes that once these “enemies” of Israel stand down so will the media overrepresentation of Israel related things get reduced.
But, there’s also a second reason, the one that I personally subscribe to that makes this conflict so different than any other and that is concerted effort by Jewish community, Israelis and pro-Israelis elements to portray the conflict in such a stark black and white, good vs. bad guys manner to the degree extremely offensive to common sense and general notions of peace and justice. The degree of dehumanization toward Palestinians and degree of even racial overtones (along the general meaning of “racist”) is so insulting to intelligent person that one simply is almost pushed to sound off, to question the “truth”, to protest in any way possible.
And the point and explanation why other conflicts do not persist in media is that you will not find for any other conflict such a degree of misrepresentation weather it’s South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Balkan wars. If you study whatever little is written and debated in media about these issues there is a common understanding and kind of consensus regarding the questions of peace, justice and what really is happening or has happened. Therefore, an average reader finds it calming and assuring that their opinion is, in general, the opinion that is promulgated within media – even the current Serbian ruling nomenclature is accepting of what transpired and why NATO bombed it). And it’s the case for all conflicts BUT this one.
That’s why.
I totally disagree. If anything, the Jewish community in America is remarkably diverse in its opinions about Israel, and not dogmatic or black-and-white in any unified way. Hell, there are countless “Jews for Palestine” and “Jews Against Zionism” groups on college campuses and metropolitan areas all over America. Do you have these type of groups with any other ethnic group in the world? Most Jews in America are left leaning and receptive to messages of “social justice” even to a fault. You will find no consensus on the issue of Israel among American Jews. You will find no “good guys versus bad guys” viewpoint unanimously declared. This is simply not how it is. If anything, Jews are the one type of people in the world that are most likely to go against their own interests.
I cannot even begin to count the number of people who’ve said to me some variation of, “As a Jew, I find the actions of Israel/Zionists to be repulsive/disgusting/horrific/evil/genocidal/Nazi-like/etc.”
Also, most Israelis would be happier if we received much less press coverage than we do. If the Jews in the U.S. media are trying to help us, they’re doing a lousy job.
Also - how do you explain the massive overexposure Israel has in the European media, which is largely anti-Israeli? Is that legitimate, because you agree with it?
Wow, interesting demonstration of the most willful ignorance in the face of facts you don’t like, since the Zoroastrians were not destroyed (remember those 210,000 of them still floating around 14 centuries after you said they were destroyed?) and you’re using the terms Arab and Muslim as being interchangeable. They do not mean the same thing.
Here is a suggestion to why people here post on Israeli human rights (sorry to participate in the hijack).
There doesn’t seem to be many posters from Burma, Saudi Arabia, India, Nepal etc that will jump on to any thread that suggests their country violates international humanitarian law, in order to vehemently defend their countries actions. So I think it reflects a significant proportion of Israeli posters more than anything else.
210,000 is a pitiful remnant of the population that was there. Yes, they were destroyed.
And no, I am not interchanging Arab and Muslim. I know exactly what I write. Educate yourself: Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia
Wikipedia is a really horrible source for just about anything relating to the Middle East.
That said, you’ll notice even that article refers not to “the Arab conquest of Persia” but “the Muslim conquest of Persia”.
I don’t know how often I have to keep repeating this, but people back then did not identify themselves based on our conceptions of what constitutes “an ethnic identity” but instead either by their religion or the city or district they were from.
The people didn’t view themselves as Arabs anymore than Romans viewed themselves as Italians.
You might as well refer to “the Italian conquest of Carthage.”
Also, telling someone to “educate” themselves and then linking to a wikipedia article doesn’t inspire confidence in your knowledge or understanding of the region, particularly when combined with your insistence that prior to the Mandatory period Jews in Palestine called themselves “Palestinians” while the Arabs referred to themselves as “Greater Syrians”.
Yes many of the leaders of the Palestinian Arabs wanted to be united with Syria and thought that’s what should have happened following the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, but they didn’t call themselves “Greater Syrians”.
I’d recommend reading Bernard Lewis or a whole host of other Orientalists before reading wikipedia if you want an understanding of Arab national consciousness and how it evolved.