It can be 4chan discussion tiem nao, pl0x? (a serious discussion of 4chan)

[The OP below uses “4chan” as having two meanings: 1) the website 4chan, and 2) the ideology expressed by (but not necessarily created by) 4chan.]

The 4chan [not hotlinked - NSFW] imageboard / message board has been around since 2003. Some of you have never heard of it, some of you know all about it and visit it daily. Some of you really, really, really shouldn’t ever visit it. It hasn’t been talked about too much on SDMB. There are only 56 threads here that mention 4chan, and those are only since 4/3/2005, 2 years after its creation. Only one of those threads explicitly referred to 4chan in its title, and that thread had 0 replies. There have been 118 individual posts explicitly mentioning 4chan.

But, since we’ve started allowing free posting, the mention of 4chan has increased dramatically. Since Sept 1, there have been 16 threads mentioning 4chan, and 44 individual posts (not counting this thread). That is a 40% increase in threads and a 60% increase in individual posts from the time SDMB switched to free posting (3.5 months), compared to the number of threads/posts from the first mention of 4chan in 2005 (3.5 years).

Should this worry us, at the SDMB? Is this because 4chan has only recently become very popular (probably starting with lolcats / caturday, and then accelerating in its popularity’s growth since then)? Or is it due to the free posting?

In either case, the cause for concern remains the same: 4chan is growing at an accelerating rate.

“So what?”, you say.

“4chan is going to take over the world”, I say.

4chan, and especially its subforum “/b/”, is a forum that moves incredibly fast in its rate of postings and replies. /b/ alone generates 150-200,000 posts PER DAY. This is mostly fueled by the fact that the majority of the posters remain as Anonymous, allowing them to post anything and everything without fear of repercussion. The result is a shitstorm of, well, shit. There is so much noise in /b/ that it’s hard to keep up with threads. A thread that you are reading at the moment on the 1st page may very well be moved to the 5th page of threads by the time you click to go to only the 2nd page of threads.

But does the anonymity of 4chan fuel this amount of noise alone? 4chan is (in)famous for starting internet memes like lolcats and rickrolling. A meme can’t be created by one person. The first mention or posting of an idea is started by one person, surely; but the entire upward popularity of that idea takes more than one. It even takes more than two, or three or ten. It takes a community.

And that’s what the scary part is. In all these thousands of posts every hour, there is a sense of cohesion. The people on 4chan get it. 4chan is so rapid-paced, but the community responds in kind. The type of humor expressed on 4chan is very much in a non-sequitur style. It is very fast, very off-the-wall. It’s as if a hundred thousand Robin Williams all started their own internet community and spend their days making each other laugh.

4chan humor is the type of humor that is appreciated by kids with ADHD. And yet, it is the very same type of forum that those same ADHD kids understand. It moves at their level of understanding, because they are the ones who are running it. The ADHD kids of the world are finding a home where they are anonymous and where they are a part of something that is growing.

The SDMB, and other message boards, is being infiltrated by the ideology of 4chan. It can be seen in the off-the-cuff responses in so many threads lately: “I accidentally my XX”, “I can has…”, “It can be XX tiem nao, plz?”

It can be argued that this sort of language is a natural phenonmenon that finds its own roots in the internet and BBS-jargon. To wit: nerd-speak begat leet-speak, which begat h4xx0r-jargon, which begat internet-jargon (“u”, “lol”, “r”).

However, the advent of threaded forums expounds on this and has begat such terms as “tl;dr”, “fyp”, “1st”, “qft” and so on. So, some forms of language can only stem from being used in a populous community. Trends and memes can’t survive by themselves, after all. So, the very nature of a threaded forum such as 4chan (and SDMB) naturally brings about themes which are popular within its own community.

But because 4chan is so populated and contains so many posts, those individual themes can easily leak out into the internet community as a whole. The entire process is very organic, when one thinks about it:

An idea is created and rejected. An idea is created and rejected. An idea is created and rejected. (We’ll call these “A”)

An idea is created and accepted by a small group (such as those people participating in an individual thread), but rejected by those outside of that small group (“B”). B is rejected. B is rejected. B is rejected.

B is accepted by a larger group, perhaps all the members of the parent forum (such as /b/), but rejected when that idea is shown to the rest of the website. (“C”). C is rejected. C is rejected. C is rejected.

C is accepted by 4chan as a whole, but that meme is rejected when it is cross-posted or utilized on another forum (say, SDMB). (“D”). D is rejected. D is rejected. D is rejected.

D is accepted by some small faction of readers in a forum, say the readers of BBQ Pit. And so the cycle repeats, each idea or meme being created and rejecting, growing outward into the internet at an organic rate.

Of course, this organic-meme idea isn’t unique to 4chan. Surely such has happened on SDMB or its predecessors on AOL (“1920’s style death rays”, “Rio, by Duran Duran”, “Hi, Opal!”). Also consider other meme-generating sites such as Fark, or Something Awful, or Slashdot. However, the volume of posts on 4chan trumps this. 4chan is, in a sense, a meme-factory. There is so much volume that relatively more popular ideas come from 4chan than any other individual place, and as 4chan becomes more popular, that number will continue to grow.

And it will grow like kudzu. The rapid-paced manner of communication popular on 4chan will begin to catch on at an accelerating rate on other forums. A new form of language is being created. It can b moar new lang-wage tiem, nao, pl0x?

If 4chan remains unbridled, this sort of communication will begin to permeate every public channel on the internet. Once 4chan has its hooks in every forum, it will spread out to published blogs and articles. 4chan is like a virus, one that will actually transcend the barrier between the internet and humanity, because it is a virus of language and ideas. Soon, this sort of quick-paced form of communication will be prevelant in everyday face-to-face speech. I have noticed this in real life, and not just with myself being the speaker; for example, saying “ell oh ell” in real life, as opposed to actually laughing.

Already an entire generation exists not having lived without the internet. If 4chan continues to grow, an entire generation might exist that speaks only in this type of language: “R’ing sandwich, kthx. In return, homework, lulz”. Businesses will be run by these people. Just as well, because just as 4chan is a meme-factory, so to will it become an business idea-factory. Just as some humorous memes become popular, so too will some business ideas take off organically and grow into companies that change the world.

It can be argued that the kids that use 4chan will grow out of it. I argue that they will not grow out of it:

These same kids, the ones who have never lived without the internet, have the entire internet and its resources at their disposal. We are all familiar with Wikipedia and it’s usefulness in our lives. However, there exists a wiki for this very type of humor and way of thinking: Encyclopedia Dramatica (also not hotlinked, also very NSFW). While ED can be said to be published in a very tongue-in-cheek fashion (“just for the lulz”, as it were), it is a clear example of how the resources of the internet will allow this type of language and ideology to survive. If ED were to be destroyed, another wiki would take its place.

ED is necessary to understand this way of thinking. There are articles on ED on real-world topics, such as Barack Obama or Iraq. Compare these articles to the corresponding articles on Wikipedia. The articles on ED are clearly humourous, but there is still the underlying permeance of this 4chan idealogy.

Just as ED mirrors Wikipedia, perhaps there will someday be an ebay for Anonymous, where you can trade your worldly possessions for a real-world punch in the balls. Or an IMDB whose inaccuracies fuel the production of real-world movies.

This type of thinking will continue to grow throughout the internet. As it infiltrates every corner of our web, there will not be any “growing out of it”, because it will be used and in your face every single day.

Can this be stopped? SHOULD this be stopped? If 4chan is allowed to grow organically and take over the world, should we allow it to happen at its own natural pace?

I do not feel it can be stopped, EVER. Slowed down, maybe. But, just as 4chan is a meme-factory, so to is it also a 4chan-factory.

tl;dr

Edit: Ok, I fell into your trap. Still not quite sure what debate there is to be had, to be honest.

tFl;dr

RE: your numbers. Do you account for the Palin-email blip? How do the numbers work out if you subtract any thread that had to do with the incident?

Very long thread, but it seems like your saying that 4chan is a meme-generating beast that can’t be stopped. Is the debate whether this is a good thing? Is it a question of whether it is or not?

Is there anywhere out there that takes/catalogs memes (or inside jokes, or whatever term you want to use), and then breaks them down by source?

The OP seems to assume everyone’s familiar with “4chan.” I for one have no idea what the hell it is. Can someone clue me in?

If someone does. You may end up wishing they didn’t.

[noparse]www.4chan.org[/noparse]

edit: Good old wiki: 4chan - Wikipedia

you broke rule #1

GTFO

What if I show you my…

Tits

No it doesn’t. The second freakin’ line says “some of you have never heard of it.”

I think a lot of stuff on 4chan is hilarious but I pretty much lost interest after seeing some of the kitten-stomping pictures and hearing numerous warnings that any given thread you click on there can contain kiddie porn.

Interesting thesis. I’ll ponder it.

I did a search for “4chan -palin” and came up with 116 posts… so either I’m doing it wrong, or there was no difference.

One debate could be something like, “Can we slow down the 4chan-induced infantilization of SDMB by requiring pay-to-post? This will slow down (but not eliminate) superfluous posts like “tl;dr” or “QFT”.” That would suggest that the influence of 4chan on other websites is a bad thing.

To not answer your final question, you can see a timeline of internet memes at dipity.com. It doesn’t break it down by source, that I can see, although it may have the source in the description for each item. I don’t really know how many memes 4chan has created; I’m sure it is over nine thousand.

In addition to Wikipedia, I also suggest reading Encyclopedia Dramatica’s entry for 4chan, in order to understand it from their perspective. Be prepared to open LOTS of new tabs or windows in order to understand all the new terminology as you go along.

only if your post ends in 43

I’d say that ultimately if everything is good natured, then it’s not a worry.

Getting a group of immature idiots together and let them run riot is potentially scary, but 4chan probably has lots of adults participating and most of their members are geeks and nerds not fratters. They’re there for the lulz and naughty pics. So I don’t think you need to worry about 4chan becoming the equivalent of frat initiations and bullying. (Though of course you didn’t mention this possiblity.)

And I don’t see anything particularly wrong with exposure to nudey pics, even extreme tentacle rape ones. These don’t seem to create psycho murderers, so who cares. (Again, you didn’t really mention this possibility.)

So really all you’re looking at is a machine for making hip jargon.

shrugs English has and will change. It’s not going to be replaced with a pidgin language because of 4chan, so really it doesn’t matter. We’ll just get a lot of new words.

Sorry, I don’t have a clue what that even means. I’m as entertained as the next guy by some of the antics there, but I seriously doubt that any site that consists pretty much solely of individual images attached to written posts of less than ten words each is going to “take over the world” in any substantive way.

The fact that you had to come here to launch a philosophical discussion of 4chan, rather than posting to 4chan itself, is telling. Do you really think if you tried to do so there, you would get any kind of coherent response, much less anything more sophisticated than “GTFO, newfag”?

Regardless of traffic levels, 4chan seems to have little current significance, IMO, other than possibly as a generator of new contributions to the English language, if any of them actually take hold. I’m waiting to see whether we all really start saying “Hai” to each other, and asking for “MOAR” of something, outside the chans.

At the very beginning of the OP, I wrote that the term “4chan” is used in my post as referring to both the website itself, and the “fast-paced, quick-witted responses for the lulz of it all” sort of mentality that is expressed by the users there. Is that an expository cop-out? Probably.

What I mean to say is that this sort of means of communication is merely fueled by 4chan. It exists already, I just use 4chan (the website) as an example because a) there are so many examples of it there, and b) people with that sort of mentality are perhaps drawn to 4chan, which creates a sort of feedback loop by bringing about that mentality in those that visit it a few times (for whatever reason) and find themselves becoming more and more absorbed into that way of thinking and expressing themselves.

I’ve heard people say “teh” in real life, based on seeing it on the internet. If even our most fundamental units of language like “the” are being supplanted, in addition to other new “hip jargon”, would that not become a pidgin language?

This is the third time I’ve seen “4chan” mentioned in less than two weeks, having never seen/noticed it before.

So I visited the website. My initial impression of it is that it’s a series of message boards based around certain themes, in which people can anonymously post pictures and comments.

What is the major appeal of the website supposed to be? Given the seemingly unstructured nature of the images (unlike say, YouTube, which has categories for “most viewed” or “most popular”), I can’t wrap my head around the appeal?

Is it the anarchist nature of the message boards?

What advantages does it have over, say, Google image search, or flickr?

SAGE.

Why aren’t people saging this shit?

Sage goes in all fields.

But seriously, uh…what exactly is the debate here? I’m a regular reader over yonder. It’s pretty interesting and funny; I laugh out loud more than once a week, I’d say, although some of the forced meme’s are annoying (Dickbutt, THEBEST, advice dog, etc)

It’s not for everyone, that much is certain, but I don’t think it should be taken down*

*ever

In b4 rules one and two, newfag, etc

:dubious: