[QUOTE=Standup Karmic]
For anyone who might be following this and be interested, it seems that I found an answer to my previous question. There isinformation on several sites indicating that the chance of an uninfected person contracting HSV during sexual activity with an infected individual that is shedding the virus (that is, is symptomatic and presumably also during asymptomatic shedding) is 75%, though other sites say the risk is 80% to 90% in women (yet anothe reason I’m happy to be a man?).
So, if I were to have sexual contact with my infected partner every day during asymptomatic periods, there is considerable chance of contracting it over the course of a year, given that 6 to 12 of those days she will be shedding the virus while still being asymptomatic.[/QUO
For all practical purposes (if your stats are correct) it sounds like you are more or less guaranteed of getting herpes if you are sexually active with her over an extended period of time. The upshot is if you can handle having herpes (if you don’t have it already), and the adjustments to your lifetstyle and relationships it will entail, and (as a practical matter) if this relationship does not last, its impact on your future prospective relationships.
It’s sort of forcing you to decide quite early how serious you are about her.
I didn’t mean to suggest that you should not try to avoid becoming infected. Only you can weigh the real pros and cons of having sex with this woman. My advice would be:
Recommend to your friend that she ask her doctor for a prescription for an antiviral that will reduce the likelihood that she will have outbreaks and to shed virus when she is asymptomatic. If the doctor says that antivirals will not reduce asymptomatic shedding of virus, he or she is not up-to-date on the literature.
Get a blood test yourself for infection with sub-types Herpes 1 and Herpes 2. If you test positive for Herpes 2 - even if you have never had a known outbreak - this woman is most probably not a risk to you.
Use condoms every time you have sex. They may not provide 100% protection against infection, they reduce the chance significantly that you will catch anything.
Go together to talk to a counselor who is informed on this issue.
Avoid sex with anybody you are not willing to be monogamous with. Then both of you get tested for HIV and other STDs before you become sexually involved.
I’m glad you’re happy to be a man, but I’d say it’s a mixed blessing being more likely to infect your female partners than they are to infect you…
Of course you should do what you need to do to protect yourself. But after you figure out what the % risk is of you contracting herpes from this person, check into the risk that you have human papilloma virus and will give it to her, the risk of unwanted pregnancy, the risk that she won’t enjoy sex with you, that you’ll fall in love with her and she’ll dump you; the risk that you will find a new partner that doesn’t know she’s infected or she isn’t infected but catches herpes from another guy on the side and then infects you anyway, and let me know where these all fall on the continuum. Then we’ll talk about all the other risks you face for disability or death, even if you decide - after reading this - to never have sex with anybody as long as you live.
What about oral sex? (In this case cunnilingus.) Is that a serious no no?
I’ve heard horror stories of oral cases of genital herpes and infections of the throat. It sounds painful and dangerous.
Recently, a study was published showing that condom use doesn’t really do much to prevent HPV transmission. The reason is because the infection affects the skin surrounding the genital area (particularly in women) and thus is still exposed with condom use. Presumably, HSV would have the same concerns. Although condoms will be protective, they are far from 100% with these types of infections. I certainly wouldn’t rely on that to protect me during an outbreak.
Anecdotal, but we’re in MPSIMS so it’s ok. I was warned by a new boyfriend about his herpes the night we hooked up. We were careful and used condoms at first, but he had outbreaks very infrequently which became even more infrequent over time-- I think he had a slight one 3 years ago (on the other hand I’ve known people who had outbreaks all the time). Eventually I went on the pill and now we’ve been together for 9 years and I don’t THINK I’ve contracted it; at least I’m asymptomatic in any case. IMO if you like her this is certainly not a deal-breaker. On the spectrum of STDs this is a cupcake.
No, of course it is important to avoid sex completely during a herpes outbreak. But if, as Astro says, her herpes infection should be what forces him to decide if he’s “serious about her,” he’s gonna have kind of a small source from which to draw girlfriends. Over 20% of adults have genital herpes and over 60% have oral herpes. Human papilloma virus is rampant and growing among sexually active college-aged people. The dangerous strains of HPV are invisible AND you’re not protected from them by condoms. (It may again make you happy to hear that it mostly causes cervical cancer in women and men don’t get that, but you can give it to your girlfriend/wife if you have it.) The benign forms of HPV cause attractive cauliflower-like growths on your genitals that are hard to get rid of.
So let’s hope the big guys come up with rapid, home-tests for all these infections, because the only alternatives to possibly being exposed to one or more of these is to pre-test anyone before you have sex with them so you can eliminate the “non-serious” contenders, or to become a priest. Oh wait, strike that.
Take a look at the female condoms. They are a bit harder to get used to, but they cover most of the external labial area too and would provide much more protection than regular condoms.
JillGat, please pardon me if I’m reading into something here, but do you have a particular agenda you’d like to disclose? While you’ve been quite helpful with information, you have also managed to quite handily paint me as someone who is clearly being concerned about something that in your opinion is of hardly any consequence, and perhaps even bordering on casting me as unfair and judgemental. In that last post of yours, you pretty much out-and-out tell me that I’d better take another look at my priorities if I want to find any girlfriend at all.
It is quite clear that you don’t share my opinion that herpes-free is VASTLY better than herpes-infected. Why, I’d go so far as to say that, given the previously quoted odds of contracting the virus, I’d rather find sex somewhere else if all we’re doing is having sex.
We had our discussion tonight. She was unaware of “viral shedding”. She experienced a wide range of emotions and even managed to project some of them in my direction. But when all was said and done, we agreed that we care very deeply for each other. However, for various reasons, neither of us is really ready to say that we have a relationship that we think is going to work, not the least of them being “time in”. We’re an extremely new romantic couple who have until very recently been just best friends. So until we know better how well we do together, we’re going to remain abstinent. (She was a little angry at this too, as well as a little sad, and a few other things, but she understands and respects my decision.)
So, in the event that we’re going to go for “long-term”, at the point we make that decision, I won’t really give a rat’s ass. At that point, it’s a risk I’m willing to take. But for now, I don’t want to put myself at risk for contracting the infection while just testing the waters. I don’t want to be the one on the other side of this conversation in six months.
In short, I genuinely thank you for your helpful advice and information, but kindly take your judgement of me as some kind of unreasonable, hysterical, over-reacting jerk and shove it.
I won’t speak for JillGat, but I certainly didn’t read any judgement in her post. She appears to be well-informed and just stating facts in my humble opinion.
In the for-what-it’s-worth department, I think you made the right decision. It’s a very difficult subject and decision for you both and you seem to be on the right track.
No thare’s a very definite vibe in some of JillGat’s posts, that choosing to reject a budding (and potentially sexual) relationship because of a partner being infected with genital herpes is small minded, and unworthy of anyone who wants to call himself a stand up man.
For someone who’s just trying to get his hands around the notion of committing to being in that type pof relationship, it’s more than a little disparaging and dismissive of his natural fears and concerns.
Question for anyone who knows the answer: to what degree would it reduce the potential for transmission of herpes if both parties wash the critical areas that aren’t protected by a condom with antibacterial soap immediately before and after the act? (I’m sure it wouldn’t help the mood, but I’m just talking about the science.)
Also, mechanics often coat their hands with a commonly available, water soluble lotion that prevents grease and oil from being absorbed into their skin. Is there anything comparable designed for use in intimate areas as a disease preventative?
Do people with cold sores take all this preventative medicine? You could pass it on every time you kiss someone whether you have a cold sore or not. If not, why not? It’s exactly the same thing as herpes, it’s the same virus showing up in a different place.
As stated before, herpes doesn’t do any long term, or even short term damage does it matter overly if you get infected??
I think there’s too much of a sigma attached to having herpes, prehaps we should it a different name like they did to leprosy.
Herpes is a virus, not a bacteria. I would suspect it is mostly unaffected by antibacterial soap. There are no topical virucidal products developed for STD prevention that I’m aware of.
Topical anti-infectives are in the works. Most are targeted at HIV, but they have effects on other viruses as well.
There are topical versions of acyclovir available (even over the counter varieties), but I don’t know of any studies looking at their use to prevent transmission of genital herpes. I would hazard a guess that it would reduce transmission, but not eliminate it. Again, that’s just my opinion. No experimental evidence that I know of.
Yes, they do. All of the same meds work for both types of herpes. It is the same virus after all. Topicals are generally recommended for oral herpes, but pills can suppress outbreaks more effectively.
FTR, I’ve had oral herpes since I was a child. As a kid, I got horrible, frequent outbreaks. Smiling or laughing immediately changed to crying due to the pain. As I’ve aged, the outbreaks have gotten less frequent and less severe. This is common with herpes (both types); the further you are from initial infection, the less severe the outbreaks. Also, I’m better at recognizing a coming outbreak and taking care of it. I do use topical acyclovir when I can tell that an outbreak is getting out of hand. There are plenty of other treatments I can elaborate on if anyone is interested.
As for transmission, I’m very careful when I have an outbreak. No kissing, no sharing glasses or utensils. AFAIK, I’ve never given it to anyone.
[QUOTE=Standup KarmicIn short, I genuinely thank you for your helpful advice and information, but kindly take your judgement of me as some kind of unreasonable, hysterical, over-reacting jerk and shove it.[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry I sounded that way. No, I think you sound very reasonable. I am an epidemiologist and spent some years working in an STD clinic. I also answered the AIDS hotline. Although I didn’t mean to cast you in this mold, I often dealt with couples in which the apparently uninfected person blamed the infected partner and made them feel like a leper. Sorry, again, if I took this out on you.
I know you didn’t mean it seriously, but to say that you are “happy to be male” because women are more likely to be infected than men (and, by the way, females are much more likely to suffer long-term, negative consequences from STDs) might have triggered some past experiences/conversations I’ve had with male partners of females who have HPV, HSV or HIV. To my mind, it might be even worse to be the one who is more likely to spread a disease than to catch it - especially if your partner is likely to suffer more than you from it (thinking HPV and cervical cancer here). So again, I didn’t mean to read that into what you flippantly said, but I guess I’m using this message board to open others’ minds about this, too.
The other button of mine was pushed when you asked for specific statistics of rates of risk for single vs repeated exposures. It is human nature to think that way and to want to simplify and get a handle on rate of risk. I constantly got asked on the AIDS hotline; “I did this specific sexual activity. What are the chances I got HIV?” or in the clinic,; “I had sex twice. What are the chances I got pregnant?” There are no hard answers to these questions, even though I understand why people ask them. As an epidemiologist, I think of the larger picture of prioritising risks in your life. The fact is that the biggest risk in any relationship is probably the emotional one. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do whatever you can to do to protect yourself from disease.
I still say the first order of business is to be tested yourself for herpes. Many people have herpes and 90% of them are unaware of it. If you’ve already got it, this relationship doesn’t pose a health risk to you - at least as far as that one disease goes.
But your concerns and desire to educate yourself about herpes are admirable. You sound like an intelligent and reasonable guy and I’m sorry if I painted you as a hysterical jerk.
True, it’s a virus, but many experts recommend washing before and after sex as one way to help protect yourself against diseases. One topical virucide was Nonoxynol 9 (I think that’s even related to what the mechanics use. I once saw Nonoxynol 6 or some other number in the greasy stuff they use for their hands). Nonox. 9 was used by women as a foam or film to help prevent pregnancy and some condoms were lubricated with it to kill other pathogens, including HIV and herpes. The problem is that it can be an irritant, and if the vaginal lining is irritated, you are actually increasing the likelihood that there will be portals into the bloodstream, facilitating infection. So it is not recommended any more. Good idea to avoid condoms with spermicide, and they are still on the market.
The “experts” are working on other topical anti-viral products and I think are close to approving one, mostly for women. It was presented at the recent International AIDS Conference in Bangkok.
