So I’m watching The Sopranos and whenever they talk about food, they always leave off the vowel at the end.
“Riccot” instead of Ricotta. Manicot instead of Manicoti. Past instead of Pasta, Antipast instead of Antipasta, Mozzarell instead of Mozzarrella, you get the picture.
Are these the actual proper pronunciations for these foods in Italian?
Also the “c” tends to be more of a hard “g”: Ricotta is pronounce more like Rigot.
I believe it varies significantly from (Italian) dialect to dialect. But someone else will have to be the one who can give the authoritative details.
I have taken it to be the idiom of the class and original region of The Sopranos Italians.
Even if not authentic, it seems a dramatisation intended to show a Southern and moderately educated background of the cast.
My family-- North Jersey and NY descendants of Sicilian immigrants-- all do that. It’s not an affectation as my 95 year old grandfather does it too. As children we were corrected as to proper pronunciation*, but since moving to CA I’d trained it out of my speech because I was tired of people looking at me funny. But, adding that “a” at the end of mozzarella sounds as wrong as “Eye-talian” (And it’s less “mot” and more “mut” now what I’m thinking about it). I can hear my ancestors rolling over in their graves every time I say it.
My folks actually know James Gandolfini (we’re from the same relatively small Bergen county town). I’ve never met the guy, but he sounds so much like my father I don’t doubt that’s just the way he talks. I had to live out here for a few years before I could even hear how strong the accent was on the Sopranos.
It’s possible this is completely wrong in modern Florentine Italian. But it’s the way early 20th century Sicilian peasants spoke, and that’s what makes up many of your NY metro Italians and all your mafia cliches.
*It’s not exactly vowel-less. There’s this little sound at the end that you make-- not a vowel exactly. But it’s hard for my english-trained mouth to make without paying attention, but I can hear my grandfather (and my Dad) make it.
Not in ‘standard’ (i.e. Florentine) italian. It’s probably a hangover from a regional italian dialect/accent combined with american influences on italian immigrants.
It sounds like it must be Sicilian/Southern Italian then. As I said, it’s not standard italian, where the vowel sound is certainly pronounced.
I can confirm what Obsidiansaid. My Sicilian grandparents spoke the same way.
Confirming here, too. My grandparents were Calabrese (the toe of Italy…deep south) and that’s the kind of pronunciations I heard as a child. Especially “rigot” and “muzzarel”. And yes, there IS a very brief almost schwa-like vowel sound at the end, but it’s almost more of an extension of the release of the preceding consonant than its own sound.
Also “gabbagol” for cappacola.
Italy has a lot of regional dialects, but in general, the southern Italians tend to drop the last vowel. Italian filmmakers often use that type of accent to portray what we would could rednecks or goobers here. There are a lot of other differences in pronunciation as well - my friend Pat, when his grandparents would call him, instead of Pasquale it sounded like “Baashgal.”
It seems to have become “cool” in my neck of the woods for foodie types to use this pronunciation. I have a number of cook friends, none of whom are Italian, who all use it.
I think is it plays up both the tough guy kitchen attitude and the feeling of authenticity.
This is how my Grandfather and his siblings spoke. However, Past was more like Pasta. There was just barely a second syllable.
Funny the Op left off the oddest word pronunciation. Prosciutto in the dictionary is listed as \prō-ˈshü-(ˌ)tō. What I say and hear is closer to Bru-shüt
I grew up in New Jersey and went to speech therapy classes to get rid of the Italian accent I picked up before I got to school living in the Bronx. So I sound pretty WASPy most of the time.
What about “pasta e fagioli”? Isn’t that pronounced “pasta fazool” by New York Italians? Or is that something completely different?
Well that should merit fair competition, but I thought prō-ˈshü-tō losing a syllable and getting a leading b was odder. That and I never order pasta e fagioli, I hated it as a kid. It was nasty tasting the way my mom made it.
I should have mentioned for a data point. My Grandpa was from Bari, which is near the south, but at the heel.
I recalled reading a NY Times article on this subject, and managed to dig up a link (free registration may be required.)
P -> B is analogous to the C > G changes. It’s an unvoiced consonant shifting to its voiced sister. “Prosciutto” to “brushoot” is the same type of change as “cappacola” to “gabbagol” (note three unvoiced consonants becoming voiced in that word, in addition to the dropping of the final consonant.)
My all Italian family (roots to Naples and Sicily) both talk like this, but they are NY/NJ immigrants. To this day my wife (not Italian) can’t understand why I just can’t say “motzerella”
The neighborhood where I grew up in the northeast Bronx was heavily Italian, mainly from Naples a generation or two back. Everybody, including the Irish and Germans, in the neighborhood used that pronunciation, because that’s how the guys that ran the Italian delis and pizzerias said it.
My husband’s ancestry is from that area as well. He always manages to confuse deli clerks when asking for gabbagol and riggot. At least most of them can figure out mutt-sa-rell.
It’s not exactly pronounced “pasta fazool”. It’s between “pasta fazool” and “pasta fajool”. It can be difficult to hear, especially if you’re not used to it, but there is just a hint of a “z” before the “j” sound