I don’t follow politics much. I don’t even know most of what Saddam was specifically charged with.
But I do know this: I work with an Iraqi girl who’s family had to flee Iraq about 15 years ago due to this man. Tonight, when I told her that Saddam had been killed, she burst into tears and started cheering. It was as if someone had told her the devil had died. Seeing that reaction from someone I know was enough reasoning for me.
I pity you. You have a very warped idea of responsibility, punishment and justice.
Exactly what I thought. I’m sure we could have gone on for months and months and maybe into years if this was a trial being held in the US. But he was found guilty in an Iraqi court, handed over to Iraqi forces, and was put to death by the same country he once ruled with a despicable dictatorship. I know that this one man’s death is not going to fix all the problems over there, but it’s one last piece of this terrible disaster known as the War in Iraq that I have to think about.
So when will the video of the hanging be on YouTube?
Okay a witness is now saying that he did not go bravely. Take my earlier comment as unsaid.
That’s good enough for me. He was a despicable man, and I’m glad he’s dead. It’s too bad his sons were never brought to trial, but I’m glad they’re dead too.
It’s not a bad thing to be happy when evil people are dead.
newscrasher, I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with your statement that
There are evil people in the world. If given a choice between saving Adolph Hitler or a slug from a burning building, I’m grabbing a pair of gloves and picking up the slug.
No tears shed here. I only wish they’d shot him in the rat hole. (Interpret that as you will.)
Howso? I work daily for justice. Actively.
I also am an advocate for just punishment. One of the things that motivates me is the innate value of every person, that cannot be diminished or increased. A person can be treated as if they are of less or more value, but that is the root of injustice.
I can use your pity though, as I am obviously quite at odds with popular opinion I must be cracked.
I know. I wasn’t being fair. I kept wanting to make one more point, yet not hijack my own OP. No disrespect was intended.
If there was ever a person who deserved to die in an untimely, painful manner, he was definitely in the Top 10. The Human Rights Watch report on the Anfal campaign against the Kurds was one of the most bone-chilling things I’ve ever read, and personally, I’d have liked to see him tried to conclusion for spearheading the Anfal. But when the same organization issues a report about how screwed up the trial leading to Saddam’s death sentence was, it makes me somehow uneasy.
That’s the idea, right there. It’s nonsensical, self contradictory, and responsible for a great many of the problems that face us in the early part of the 21st century.
(my emphasis)
How so?
How can I increase or decrease the value of my life?
How can I increase or decrease the value of another’s life?
I can TREAT someone as if their life is more valuable, or TREAT them as if their life has less value, but that does not make it so.
I am interested to hear more about how my answer is nonsensical or contradictory, or how it is part of the problems of the 21st century.
Whether or not this makes any sense at all depends on how you are defining “value”, and to whom. If you do good in the world, your life is obviously of positive societal value; if you do bad in the world, your life is of negative societal value. If you are a force for destruction in the world, then a strong – and obvious – argument can be made that the world is better off without you in it. That said, a serial killer’s life is of high value to himself and probably to his mother; it is of significantly less value to the families of his victims and society as a whole.
I respect the idea that all humans are of innate worth; indeed, it is a tenent of the faith I personally follow. But the idea that you cannot by your actions increase or decrease the value of your own life seems to me to be nothing more than an invitation to irresponsibility – both personal irresponsibility in not accepting “blame” for personal bad choices and societal irresponsibility, in not accepting the heavy burden of judging others, when justice requires that others be judged, and in not accepting the duty to help others when you can (because you cannot make them “better” or “worse”). Though I assume you are intending to honor human dignity by holding this position, it is nonetheless an inherently helpless point of view.
The better argument against capital punishment, IMO, is not that value cannot be assessed, but that no person is of such low value that they should forfeit their life for any wrong they may have done, if they can be adequately punished and/or contained by less lethal means. As it happens, this is not my opinion – I am opposed to the inequitable application of capital punishment, but not to it in theory and not to it in this specific case – but it is the “anti” position you could justifiably hold without throwing up your hands on the wider issue of assigning and taking responsibility.
This thread is a terrifying example of what happens when we start characterizing people’s life value based upon what they have done, good or bad, in their life.
Would Rigamarole have been more sympatheitc if there were an attractive young lady passed out? Could he have been bothered to make a phone call or offer the most basic of care if he recognized the passed out man as a movie star? Would he have approached the person with a kind word and a bottle of water if he was wearing running clothes instead of the clothing of a vagrant?
Rigamarole has illustrated that if we are willing to make judgements about the value of a person, we will act on that judgement. If he had believed in the inate value of each person, he could not have so callously said he would wait until tomorrow to see if the guy in front of his house was dead or not. But since apparently bums are a dime a dozen in his neighborhood, the man in trouble was not worth the small effort needed to possibly save his life.
From the Pit thread about Rigmarole’s callousness to his fellow man…
See, some people are worthy of care, some are not. 
Jodi’s first two paragraphs said what I think pretty well. As for the other thread, isn’t that a commentary on Rigmarole rather than the bum? Going out to help someone in trouble-be it bum or king- is the action of someone who wishes to increase the value of their own life. Leaving the bum lay in the gutter is the action of someone for whom the value of their life is set in stone. Nothing they do is going to increase or diminish the value of their life, so why bother? That is the attitude responsible for a lot of the problems I referenced earlier.