Fair enough; as I say, the homeless folk in my neck of the woods are genuinely down on their luck and needy (and usually grateful with it).
It happened right in front of a Circle-K in Laredo, TX. The young lady whom I was accompanying started to offer him one of her mentholated cigs, ubt I told her to put them away. Said homeless individual then followed us to the car, cursing like a banshee the whole way.
Clearly, the man had issues. I wonder if he realized that he was one suspicious hand motion away from getting shot by both of us.
These days, I wouldn’t even acknowledge the initial request for a cigarette. I’d react to him the same way I’d react to a pile of dogshit in my path. Step around it, try not to breathe the stench too deeply, and keep going.
Not making moral judgments, but as a statement of fact, most (certainly not all) people begging or homeless have drug and psychological issues that have brought them to this state. Expecting gratitude from homeless people, many of whom are not on a “hail fellow -well met” wavelength is self defeating. If you intend on giving charity, give it with and open hand and no expectation of emotional gratification other than the act of giving.
Even the ones that do say “Thank you” are often saying “Fuck you” after you leave, when you give them things. Even if they need it desperately, they still feel it’s condescending and will (internally at least) think the way Bricker’s person verbalized.
I was homeless in NYC, and use to pick up change off the sidewalk till I got 50 cents, go into a diner, use their bathroom to wash up, get a cup of coffee and take whatever food was left on plates to eat outside. One guy saw me doing this, and came outside with a breakfast plate and two sandwichs which he gave to me and walked off without saying anything.
I will never forget this if I live to be 100.
Well of course it is. We do things for others because it gives us the warm fuzzies to do it. “I helped someone out today” is just a PC way of saying “I’m better than that bum outside the grocery.” That’s not the only reason, mind you; there may well be some biological drive that tells us helping others will help us move into a more desirable area of the gene pool, or some religious conviction that charity will get us into heaven or something like that, but I think it’s basically for the gratitude. Which is why we feel so crap when we don’t get it.
Scumpup
I know exactly what you mean. There was this right-handed guy pleading for help trying to get this big crate down the steps, and I picked up one side and helped him down and not only didn’t he say ‘thank you’, he cussed at me for not helping him get it onto the subway. Next time I see some right-handed fuck carrying something, I’m stepping on his fucking hands, screw this shit, ya know?
;rolleyes:
I don’t think that’s the issue - at least, not for me. I can deal with a lack of gratitude. I thank people if they hold open a door for me, but don’t necessarily expect to get a thanks when I do so. And it doesn’t bother me. In Bricker’s example, and some of the others, instead of gratitude they got contempt.
And if someone holds me in contempt for helping them, I’ll be damned before I help them again.
Because it’s right to punish people who had nothing to do with it because one guy way back when, who clearly has mental health problems, once reacted in a manner which displeased you.
Awhile back when ordering a pizza, I decided to get a second and find a homeless person downtown to give it to. After driving around for awhile, I finally found someone, pulled over and got out of my car. An older woman (or at least the liver of a hard life), to my amazement she took off like a shot. Dumbfounded, it took me a second to realize she though I wished her harm. I finally yelled out for her to stop, that I was just trying to give her some food. She came back and mumbled a thanks but I’ll never forget the initial look of fear on her face. I think you have to keep in mind that many of these folks are, if you’ll pardon the phrase, bringing something different to the table than you or I. Do the charitable thing not for appreciation but simply because, without question, it’s the right thing to do regardless of the reaction you’ll receive.
Gosh, Otto, do you think I might have been engaging in a bit of cynical humor when I wrote that?
But is it necessarily the right thing to do? The giving of a meal gratis is fine (providing the person is able to eat/digest it), but how about the issue of giving money? How many times have I dropped a dollar in the cup (OK, a quarter, whatever) and wondered if this was really going towards food, clothes, or shelter? Or was I merely enabling the person to get another drink/hit/shot? And is that truly charity, when, in fact, we may be hastening that person’s demise?
Sure you should give money… to Charitable Organizations where it can be used to provide appropriate items to needy recipients. But no, we’re not in the habit of handing out cash to those that might ask. A meal or a cig when I smoked, sure, but not cash.
I have no idea. I don’t really know you that well, so I suppose it’s possible. I guess I was thrown off the idea that it might be humor by its not being, you know, funny.
There is a hidden camera type TV showed called ‘Just for Laughs’ that did that exact same bit. Guy bums a smoke, then drops it on the ground and steps on it. Camera catches the mark’s WTF expression.
Whatever, Otto. I’m glad to improve your day whether through a laugh or the opportunity to feel self-righteous. Ta.
I love when you roll your eyes that way. It’s too sexy.
Be that as it may, I don’t recall saying anything about stepping on anybody’s hands or otherwise harming them. Nope, all I said was I won’t be acknowledging anymore requests. You are the author of any other drama.
Based on experiences I’ve had similar to Amazon Floozy Goddess’s, I do not give handouts of any kind directly to anyone.
It’s not that I doubt that people need assistance. Nor that I doubt that many of them suffer from mental health and drug/alcohol issues.
It’s that I don’t believe that even a large part of money given to panhandlers actually goes to food. No matter how downbeat they look, or act, no matter how earnest their story of woe, most of them will turn any cash they’re given into some kind of hit: beer; booze; alcohol; smokes; or drugs. And when that’s what they’re working towards getting money for, they neither want nor appreciate food, or beverages. Back when I had a car, I’d occaisionally offer to take people to the local shelter, or to buy them a meal of their choice, but I never had anyone take me up on those offers.
There are people here in NY who are actually advocating expanding the bottle bill - the deposit placed on soda and beer containers - to allow the homeless to continue to fund their lives. What this thinking ignores is that many of the chronically homeless in the US are suffering from serious problems that need treatment - and collecting the bottles now is enabling them to avoid that. For every ‘success’ story about people getting on their feet collecting bottles, I can point to several coming to the dumpster behind my building who have no desire to change their situation.
I don’t have a solution. I’m only mean to point out that much of this is surface effects of deeper problems.
I’m bemused at the notion that thinking whipping things at homeless people for no good reason is asshole-ish behaviour is being “self-righteous.” Glad to know that you apparently don’t actually do it. Ta to you too, sweetie.
Settle down boys and let’s discuss nice. 
To expand on what lieu has been saying … I started a GD thread a couple years back on the issue of “have poor people ever been forced to eat pet food?” Here’s a link to that discussion.
I learned a lot in that thread, including comments from people, like Annie X-mas who have actually been homeless. And one of those things is, that they don’t see the world as people with a home, a bed, and plenty of food to eat. There is a level of despair there that for those who have never experienced it, it is hard to fathom. The thread does get a little bogged down in discussion about calories, but it’s still worth reading if you’re interested in the plight of homeless people.
It’s my understanding that the homeless life, despite not involving bills, mortgage payments, soccer practice, the price of gas or crummy commercials in the middle of the good part of one’s favorite TV show, is rather a stressful one. Homeless dude has to deal with exposure, malnutrition, filth, getting beaten by other homeless or even abused by regular folks who view him as a non-person. He has no ready access to dental care nor really to any preventive medical care. He’s more likely to be treated as a perp than a victim by the police so he’s got NO legal recourse in the real world. Unless he’s gut-stabbed, then the ER might take him and give him some stitches. A lifestyle like that sort of precludes the flowery language of euphamism and hollow gratitude we’ve come to lean on. If you take me to out to lunch to a Thai restaurant (I HATE Thai) on your dime as a treat, I’m gonna have lunch and appear to enjoy it because your feelings matter to me. Homeless dude has little incentive to consider your feelings. Your feelings don’t feed him, keep him warm or buy his next hit, if that’s what he needs.
Mental illness has been tossed into this thread a couple times but I don’t see anyone having a “eureka” moment about it. Which isn’t surprising as it’s hard to understand a schizophrenic mind unless you have one. Let’s add this into the mix for a moment. Schizophrenia grants a partial or total seperation from a commonly shared reality. The Schizo lives in his OWN world to varying degrees. Sometimes the effect is minor and he can get by showing only a little if any distraction to belie his condition (thank you very much). But sometimes the detachment is so severe that he is not able to function in society. Rejected by peers and often abandoned by family he makes a living as best he can in a world he imagines to be hostile. Enemies are frightening, unseen and imaginary, and at least as often very real, physically harmful and just as frightening.
In that kind of world, where is the place for “thank you?” You gave him the granola bar because you KNEW he had a bad tooth and couldn’t eat it! Why the F should he thank you for such an act of cruelty? He even gave you the chance to redeem yourself and make a gesture of good will by giving him money, but then you showed your true colors by declining to help him with this very basic need. Who can blame him for bemoaning his condition?
Amazon Floozy Goddess, you’re a terrific person just for trying, but odds are this guy didn’t live in your world and probably didn’t see you. What he saw was just another hostile and taunting force making his life a living hell. Damn straight it was most likely his attitude that brought him to his current state, and that attitude was shaped by a mental camera that has a vastly different lense from yours.
I guess my point is, there is absolutely no reason to assume that a person who lives a life worlds apart from anything you know should behave in any way remotely familiar to you. Mental illness notwithstanding, the priorities are just different. He wouldn’t last long in your world, nor would you in his. Not without significant changes in behavior at least. Give water to the thirsty, give food to the hungry. But do so with a truly charitable heart or you may be disappointed with the response.