And that is what’s more troubling to me than any of the idiocy you quoted in the OP.
The difference is that those “people” (not including the morons who thought they were being funny) posted that bullshit because it’s what they’ve been taught all their lives and they never questioned it, or they’re acting out of fear or misplaced self-righteous.
Your post was the result of your putting thought into the matter, considering the “other side,” and weighing it in your mind. And you still came to a frightfully similar conclusion – that what they believe is “shit”, it’s wrong, that the actions of good people don’t matter, and that the world would be a better place if Christianity didn’t exist. And you don’t seem to recognize this as intolerance, how it’s not much better than saying that non-Christians are being somehow “punished” for believing the wrong thing.
Well, I’m not much of a crier. Mostly I do it when I’ve become more frustrated than I can handle. I couldn’t even finish reading the comments.
What bothers me isn’t really the jokes. Sometimes I have a sick sense of humor, but I also understand that there are things you don’t say out loud, especially when the wounds are fresh. It’s rude. Not saying it at a time like this doesn’t make you much better of a person inside…if you’re still thinking it, but at least nobody else knows what a waste of flesh and energy you can be.
Anyway, what frustrated me the most is that these ignorant assholes have completely misinterpreted the meaning of their own religion or what it was supposed to stand for and are VOCAL about it. Super vocal. Squeaky, annoying little shitheads that are finding enough of them in numbers to become louder and louder every day. There will never be any reasoning with them. Ever. They will never see the complete and utter bastardization and destruction of what was a pretty good idea in the first place. (By good idea, I mean, whatever keeps the faithful acting like good people, fine, great. Believe whatever you want, just don’t tread on me and leave me out of it.) The problem now is that this is how societies change. Loud minority groups many times become even louder majority groups. If there’s no arguing with these people, it’s just a frustrating thought to know you can’t do anything about it. Nothing.
How can you equate people spouting such hatred in the name of religion with my saying that the world would be better off if people were atheist/humanist/call it what you will? I don’t hold the belief that people deserve to be punished for their beliefs, neither do I think Christians are in any way lesser or worse human beings than me. Quite a few people calling themselves Christians, on the other hand, hold that those who do not share their beliefs are worse than them, and do deserve to be punished for not following what they see as the “correct” way of living.
As an atheist, I do not judge people on their religion - as long as they treat other people as equals I do not care what their personal beliefs are. Many Christians fit that description perfectly, which is just fine and dandy. How is that “intolerance” akin to when Christians (or insert whatever religion you choose) start judging other people and telling them that they are going to spend eternity in damnation because they don’t worship the right deity?
Although this is the Pit, I would appreciate an honest answer to the above.
He has put thought into his post, and he’s right. Religion, all religion, not merely Christianity, no matter how noble its aims, ultimately devolves into no more than yet another tribal divider, pitting the saved against the heathen.
Look at Jesus. He preached love for one’s enemies, forgiveness in the face of insults, compassion and charity for the poor, and if you believe his press agents, he was God’s agent of redemption for a lost and errant world. Yet look at how his fan club has distorted the teachings into fawning on the rich, the bakc of their hand for the poor, and hate, not compassion, for “sinners.” The vast majority of Christians in this country have, despite valiant efforts by decent believers like yourself, made their church an emblem of avarice, bigotry, and ignorance. They have made hate for gays and contempt for science and an adherence to outward shows of piety the hallmarks of their rlegion. They are the Pharisees of our time.
IMO, humanity would be better off abandoning faith in the supernatural and embracing an ethos of love, charity, and benevolence, because if this is the only life we are ever going to have, we ought to make it as decent and happy for each other as we can.
How are these people any different from the subset of Muslims(whom I’m sure they rant about as well) who use their warped idea of religion to preach hate and intolerance. Stupid hateful people are all around.
I see nothing of Christ’s teachings in what they say.
I quite agree. Let’s face it, concentrating on being rewarded in a paradisiac afterlife — which is the real reason we’re here, with the Earthly life just a proving ground — is hardly compatible with making the best of our time on this rock…
Offhand, I can’t recall when any prominent atheist or atheist group have ever celebrated at the death of thousands of religious faithful in any kind of calamity.
I did say “not much better,” which is hyperbole, but then this is the Pit after all. I want to make it clear that I am in no way defending the shit that you quote in your OP, because those comments are inexcusable. And they’re not Christianity. They’re not even humanity.
But no, saying that non-Christians deserve to die and they had it coming is not the same thing as saying that the world would be a better place if there were no religion. I apologize for equating them so closely.
Because the people who are spouting that bullshit are saying, at its core, beneath all the layers of stupidity, that the world would be a better place if there were no non-Christians. They can’t deal with the incompatibility of billions of people living on the same planet with different religious beliefs that can’t be completely reconciled. And they can’t deal with the idea of religious tolerance, that it doesn’t have to always boil down to “I’m right, you’re wrong” but can coexist as “we’re all right in our own way.” So they just want the “problem” to go away. And they say insensitive, idiotic stuff like that God is dealing with the problem by killing all the non-Christians.
And it’s just made worse when you say that the good works of Christians – people who are truly practicing the Christian faith – don’t matter. That sounds as boneheaded to me as someone’s dismissing all of the Muslim faith based on the actions of terrorists.
In your mind, sure. Which is why (or at least partly why) you see no value in religion and why you see it as a purely destructive force.
But you know plenty of people who can take a more humanist, if not secular humanist, approach to religion and can see its value not only as a sociological mechanism, but have true faith and belief in it. It has value to us, and we don’t need to oppress others or insist that we’re the chosen ones or that we’re “right” to be able to get value in it.
And you of all people should realize the danger in dismissing an entire group based on the actions of a subset of that group, even if that subset is in the majority. I believe the example I used last time still applies: the majority of the citizens of the United States have voted to deny homosexuals equal rights. That doesn’t mean that we should as a result abandon the concept of the United States. It just means that those of us who are American and are also capable of recognizing right from wrong, have an even greater obligation on us to do the right thing and show the rest of the world, along with other Americans, what it really means to be an American.
I believe that, and if you substitute “Christian” for “American” and “religion” for “United States” in that last paragraph, I believe all that too.
Who in their right mind could argue against that? I just don’t see why it requires everyone to abandon his faith in the supernatural. You’ve read enough of the Bible to know that it’s a bit more sophisticated than just doing good for the benefit of appearances, while we’re down here killing time on earth, and it only matters when we get to heaven. My belief in an existence after my physical death doesn’t mean that my time on earth doesn’t matter at all.
According to an 85-year-old WWII veteran I come into contact with at work, the real reason behind the tsunamis is to show us that the 1,000+ casualties in the Iraq war is really nothing to complain about. How can we bitch about our war dead when see, it could be so much worse? Support the troops! :rolleyes:
I couldn’t think of anything to say that didn’t involve screaming and assault on his person, so I just changed the subject.
In fairness the man lived through a conflict that often saw a 1000 allied dead as a daily/weekly event so his opinion may be slightly skewed to modern ears.
BTW I’m glad you didn’t get physical with a 85 year old. That would have been a very uncool way to go no matter how much of a cunt he was being.
Well, jeez dude, I was just kidding. I’m a 36 year-old woman and he’s a patient in my office. I wouldn’t actually hit him. I just find it so freaking absurd that one can take anything that happens, good or bad, and say “God did it!” Doesn’t sound all that different to me that ancient civilizations that thought when bad things happen that the gods were displeased.
Sorry. I didn’t know who you are and just jumped to a very drunk conclusion. New Year and all means I’ve just come home from 12 hours on the beer. I apoligise for my knee jeck ass hatery
heck, I’ve been on Wiccan/NeoPagan boards where they discuss the finding of the Red Heifer & the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple in the same posts as the coming of the Annunaki Space-gods.
No, what these people are saying is that 150,000 non-christians dying is a good thing. It’s the difference between saying that “the world would be better off if there were no alcoholics”, vs “all alcoholics deserve to die”.
There is an enormous difference. One is perfectly fine and good, the other is hateful and wrong. And one does not necessarily imply the other.
