It's the Food Pyramid that makes our kids fat! (mild, exhausted)

My Dad’s mom was Irish. His father was French Canadian. They ate meat, potatoes, and overcooked vegetables. All. The. Time. Oh, and deep-fried battered fish on Fridays. A big treat was meat pie. That’s a pie, filled with meat. And some other stuff. Like mashed potato. I think there were spices and lard in there, too. Ever had poutine? Take French fries, hot from the vat. Dump some whole-milk cottage cheese on them, if you can’t get your hands on fresh cheese curd. Now slather them with thick, gooey gravy. Voila! You got yourself some poutine. Top it all off with a bowl of ice cream. Feel those arteries harden.

Except, in my Dad’s case, they didn’t. Nor any of his brothers. His parents lived well into their 80s. My grandfather’s favorite thing was to take the wife and kids on Sunday after church to a diner, where they’d gorge themselves on pastries fresh from the local bakery. His personal favorite being the Bismark. His specialty was home-made rootbeer, which they drank copiously, along with all the other of their favorite soft-drinks from the Mt. Zircon Bottling Company. “Diet Soda” was simply not on anybody’s radar. Skim milk wasn’t inveted, as far as they were concerned. Eggs and bacon for breakfast were completely the norm.

Yet none of them were fat, none of them had heart disease, and none of them got diabetes. They didn’t need a food pyramid. Probably some of it was lucky genes, but the fact is, they were all very active. They lived a blue-collar life. They built things with their hands. They walked to church or to their neighbor’s, rode bikes for miles to visit their playfellows, did chores around the house without the help of many modern conveniences. Even in the 50s, life was just more labor-intensive, especially in a place like rural New England. And food was simply not as plentiful. Even though they ate crap a lot of the time, they didn’t eat a ton of it.

No, that’s not what he said, either. He said that the food pyramid contributes to the obesity epidemic. As in, for instance, the average over-weight American is 50 pounds over ideal and if they ate a little more red meat and a little less whole grain pasta many of them might find that they weren’t fucking hungry and skipped that 200 calorie snack at midnight. Skipping that every night won’t get them to ideal body weight, but they might find they stop gaining pounds and don’t feel sluggish, cranky and hungry all the time. They might find that they are, after a few months, 30 or 40 pounds overweight. That’s one possible meaning of “contributing to”. He did not suggest that the food pyramid, in isolation, is the 100% cause of all the weight gain in any single person.

Nope, would not be inclined to say that. In fact, I didn’t say that. What I would, and did say, was that if one follows the food pryamid, many are inclined to still feel hungry and tired. Hungry people keep eating. People who keep eating get fat. Some foods make one feel full faster. Some foods are digested differently. To the extent that the designers of the food pyramid fail to recognize that a fairly normal person attempting to follow it will feel cranky, tired and hungry in exchange for maintaining a healthy body weight is the extent to which they fail at helping people make healthy choices.

The de-emphasis on meats is an attempt to cut down on heart disease. Moderate intakes of fat and red meat (my apologies to vegetarians, who in my experience are infinitely more knowledgable about this than I am), in many people, allows to them a concommitment reduction in caloric consumption in pastas, grains, and other starches. That is, many people will find that an extra, say, four hundred calories in relatively low fat meat will allow them to cut, say, 600 calories in grain products (all numbers made up, I am not a doctor, consult a doctor before starting any diet, and if you take dieting advice from some guy on the internet you deserve to die). Some diets have found that some people can replace a diet of a zillion calories of grains with half a zillon calories of meat and actually stick to the diet because they don’t feel hungry and tired all the time.

Look, I have…experimented with various forms of hunger in my time. I know what it feels like to subsist on pasta and bread. I know what it feels like to exist solely on plums (long story). I know what it feels like to subsist entirely on hamburgers. I can assure you that, in order of desirability, its pretty much plums, burgers, and pasta, and that in order to feel like I wasn’t going to kill and eat the next person I encountered, I needed a lot more calories from the grains than I did from the burgers. One one-thousand (1500? I forget) calorie Fat burger made me a lot less inclined to need food than 3,000 calories of whole grain pasta did.

A healthy diet should not mean being tired and hungry all the fucking time. The food pyramid and the associated serving sizes mean that many, many people will feel hungry and tired all the time, even though they are technically healthy. If the government has constructed a diet scheme that says “eat this way and you’ll feel hungry and tired all the time”, they’ve constructed one that many, many people are going to fail. That’s going to lead, inexorably, to a bunch of overweight people. Saying “well, you should just tough it out and be hungry you fat whiner” does nothing whatsoever to address the problem and flies in the face of everything about people, especially the bit where they have more important things to do than sit around counting calories.

No one, other than you, has suggested that anyone at all is overweight solely because of the food pyramid. Good choices, judicious uses of fat, high intakes of fruits (which, frankly, I think get short shrift in the current food pyramid) and an emphasis on the better types of grains, combined with an active life style and drastically limited intake of convenience foods are important, too. But the food pyramid needs to be considered and revamped so it takes into account the actual actions of actual people, the actual feelings brought on by eating foods. There is nothing at all to suggest that this one, constructed specifically to reduce fats, did that.

As a child, I remember plates in restaurants being the size of the plates at home. Remember that?

I think having 39 flavours of Food Pyramid will have little effect on the situation; perhaps widespread public education on what is actually in the foods we eat (the actual calorie content, the actual fat content, different types of fats, what vitamins and minerals if any and how much we need to consume daily), may be of more use.

Not even the USDA thinks the food pyramid is being used by most people to guide their food choices. That’s missing the point, IMHO…

It is used and followed closely by institutions that prepare meals. It impacts lunches served at schools, hospitals, etc. because the dieticians who make the menus for those sorts of places do pay attention to and follow the guidelines.
If this was just put out to guide the eating habits of the average person it would be a huge excercise in wishful thinking and nothing more.

I totally agree with this - I mentioned earlier that the USDA has not just one food pyramid, but 12, depending on ethnic background. It seems like that’d make it even more confusing instead of simpler. And it would definitely help if they provided easy-to-understand measurements that weren’t in cups or ounces. Most people I know don’t take measuring cups to work, yet that’s where they eat about 2/3 of their meals (breakfast & lunch).

So it’s make more sense to say that a serving size of nuts is 1/4 cup, which translates to a small handful. Or when cooking pasta, use whole wheat and if you’re cooking pasta for two, the bundle of pasta should be about the same size as a quarter in diameter. I also wish they’d provide a comprehensive list of “whole grains.” I know what whole grains are, but lots of people don’t understand that wheat bread and 100% whole wheat bread aren’t the same and that you need to look at the label. Then there are vegetables and meats - explaining that eating meat or vegetables smothered in heavy cream or cheese sauce isn’t the same as eating meat that has been grilled would be nice, because a surprising number of people don’t know that.

Twelve separate pyramids? That’s confusing. Why didn’t they just rename it the Food Pyramidal Dodecahedron, so people would know what they’re talking abou?

Do you have a cite to back up your assertion that eating carbohydrates make one feel tired? I don’t believe that’s true. They don’t make me feel tired. I have vegetarian friends who eat LOADS AND LOADS of carbs, all the time, and have quite a bit of energy. Where exactly are you getting this idea?

I eat between 100-150 grams of whole carbs every day (sweet potatoes, whole wheat bread/pasta/tortillas, brown rice, quinoa) and I feel wonderful, tons of energy. I do avoid “white” carbs, not because they are “carbs” but because they don’t offer much nutritional value.

I don’t eat red meat either, the majority of my protein comes from beans, tofu and low fat dairy, salmon (with the occasional small serving of turkey - long story).

I don’t think carbs make all people tired and cranky, either. I eat mostly carbs (whole grains, fruits & vegetables) and little meat and I feel great.

I think that’s part of the problem with the idea of a food pyramid. It’s great to have a guide to teach people, but diet is by no means one size fits all. Some people do great on low-carb diets, other feel like shit. I tried a low carb diet once - felt like shit for the first 2 weeks and finally, I just couldn’t keep up. Also, my doctor told me they weren’t a good idea, so I stopped, but that’s not the point. On the other hand, a friend was on a low-carb diet, felt like shit for the first 2-3 days of induction, then everything stabilized and he felt absolutely wonderful.

Making the statement, “eating carbs makes people feel tired and cranky and makes them eat more” is not an accurate statement, as Glory and blowero have noted.

What’s worked for me is paying attention when I eat. I make it a point to sit down and taste my food instead of mindlessly shoveling it in between work and errands. Doing that and exercising more was what helped me start losing weight, not cutting out or restricting entire food groups. Everyone just needs to find what works best for them to maintain a healthy weight.

You know that this is 1/3 to 1/2 the carbs recommended by the USDA’s RDA system, right? If you do the math on your Nutrition labels, you’ll see that the Recommended Daily Allowance is about 280g carbs per day. Now, think about it, if you ate twice to three times the carb calories you are currently consuming, is that a diet you would really advise for long term health?

By the commonly accepted definitions, 100g carbs per day is at the upper end of what is considered a “low carb” lifestyle. 150g would be considered “moderate carb intake” along the lines of the “Balance” or “Zone” system. “Normal” is the Recommended ~300g.

I’m currently still in “weight loss” mode since I’m not at my goal weight yet. When I reach my goal weight, I will expect to eat more grams of carbs daily (as well as more of other foods and overall higher calorie intake) while I’m in “maintenance mode.” (note: I’m not “low carbing” at all, complex carbohydrates are FINE with me, I’m watching my overall calorie intake while eating unlimited fruits/vegetables).

I just didn’t like Bashere’s statement that people eating whole grains instead of red meat were apt to feel tired all day and overeat - in my case, this is hogwash. I do eat whole grains I do not eat red meat - I am not tired all day. Bashere even specifically said “whole grains” which have a lot of good qualities. I probably wouldn’t have responded if s/he had recommended that people eat fewer grams of refined carbs - but whole grains? That’s good stuff and good for you (in my experience).

You are correct. I’ve been trying to figure out a way of saying “opps, I’m an idiot and mixed refined carbs with whole grains while typing away, and a diet of whole grains is really good”. I take issue only when too much emphasis is placed on grains, regardless of source, and when one foregos proteins and tries to get all of their calories from grains. I mentioned vegetarians, and I want to reiterate that people who don’t eat red meat tend to know more about their diets than I do about mine, so I suspect that if you don’t eat red meat, you’ve probably got the whole lots of protein from healthy sources nailed and can ignore my comments about the need for it. I apologize for being quite simply, wrong. I have no idea what prompted me to keep harping on whole grains when I generally view whole grains with favor. A diet of refined carbs, though, will knock me out cold - YMMV.

To be fair, quite a few noted nutritionists have criticised that the “old” food pyramid, while using the best science at the time but tempered with a need to be easily understood, has become dated with mew research which is what prompted the “new” food pyramid which is slowly being launched this year. Among other things, it turns out that different carbs have a markedly different effect and that lumping them all into the bottom of the pyramid and encouraging people to eat them had a marked effect on obesity.

More info can be found in this Scientific American Article