I've decided polygamy is an excellent way to raise a family

[wonky]

@Stoid

In order for these statements to be worthwhile, you would have to have access to far more information than is available in published sources available to everyone else.

And if you don’t, you are assuming, spinning, supposing and just generally making things up.That’s ok, though, because this is IMHO, and you’re entitled to make things up, fantasize, imagine and suppose all you like.

And others have the right to recognize that you are sharing your suppositions and spin, and dismiss it.

Like we dismiss yours.

[Rhodes]

@Stoid

You said you didn’t want information that was not legal, and that can’t be shared with you even if you do want it. But if you Google it right, you can find what you want. Googling ain’t illegal.

True that. I’d like to be able to watch the past episodes and form my own opinion, but as far as I can tell there wasn’t an obvious legal way to watch them. And it’s against the rules around here to teach me to do anything illegal. I was hoping there was a source I’d overlooked. Looks like I’ll have to either wait a year for the DVD or sift through the fake sites on Google until I find actual episodes (of dubious legal status).

[HMS_Irruncible]

Polygamy would work if the child-support obligations were enforced by the state, and the women had the right to end the agreement and find a new spouse if desired. And if you think about it, that’s exactly the situation exists when you have a guy paying child support to multiple ex-girlfriends. He may or may not enjoy ongoing sexual access to them, but he knocked them up and they’re raising his children, foreclosing other opportunities for them. For all intents and purposes, America is a society of state-sanctioned polygamy.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Those exgirlfriends are free to have other relationships and have equal rights with their baby daddies.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Stoid

Bingo.

So you admit that polygyny is unequal. Is that inequality an “excellent” thing to model for children?

[AClockworkMelon]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

So you admit that polygyny is unequal. Is that inequality an “excellent” thing to model for children?

I think her point is that they had the equal right to agree to the inequality to begin with.

[Sarahfeena]

@Stoid

We can get very bogged down in definitions, as I’ve just shown you.

Many relationships are fair, just, and equitable without both parties having the SAME rights and responsibilities. They have what, for them, (and who else gets to judge?) are EQUAL rights and responsibilities. His responsibility may be to earn sufficient money to support the whole family. Her responsibility may be to see to it that the children are cared for, everyone is fed good meals, and the house is clean. The responsibilities are completely different, but they are equal and fair.

Again, having different responsibilities is different from having different rights. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve recently gone from being a working mom to being a stay-at-home mom (though not by choice). Due to this change, there has been a shift in the responsibilities as they are divided between my husband and me. That’s fine, I’ve got more time at home now, so I’m doing more of the housework, makes sense. But I’m not obligated to stay home and do the housework due to the fact that I am the female. I can look for another job or I can stay home. I wouldn’t leave my husband out of the decision I eventually make, but I have the right within the context of our relationship to do either one…it wasn’t decided at the altar that I would do X and he would do Y.

[Stoid]

@Cosmic Relief

Polygamy would work if the child-support obligations were enforced by the state, and the women had the right to end the agreement and find a new spouse if desired. And if you think about it, that’s exactly the situation exists when you have a guy paying child support to multiple ex-girlfriends. He may or may not enjoy ongoing sexual access to them, but he knocked them up and they’re raising his children, foreclosing other opportunities for them. For all intents and purposes, America is a society of state-sanctioned polygamy.

Not really, polygamy is concurrent relationships, you are talking about serial.

[DrDeth]

@Stoid

Everything that references it at all…

There’s nothing besides three lines, one from the LA Times review: "…All three of the women were raised either in or surrounded by polygamist families "
"*Janelle claims “However, I was not raised in the faith or even a member at the time”’ *from your cite,
and from the Canadian source:
"TTwo of the wives, Meri and Christine, had been raised in polygamist families, while Janelle, though a Mormon, had not. "

That’s “Everything that references it at all” and they contradict each other and only one cite (her own self-serving statement) which MIGHT agree with you. (or might not, depending on what she meant by “the faith”.)

Now, Janelle can NOT be a Mormon, the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka LDS. She’d have been excommunicated instantly. Mormons are fairly big on obeying.
So, we have one cite that sez she was "raised either in or surrounded by polygamist families " her own statement “However, I was not raised in the faith or even a member at the time”’ and finally one that sez “Janelle, though a Mormon, had not”. es toto.

So, it appears that the 3rd source was using “Mormon” as a generic term, including the FLDS, etc as “mormons”. Happens, common error. Her claim is clever “not raised in the faith”, note she does not speficy which “faith”. Perhaps she was one of the other dozen or so small mormon-like fundamentalist sects and not Apostolic United Brethren or FLDS. Thus, if so, all three statements are true.

But she can not be a Mormon, the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka LDS. She coyly does not specify which faith she WAS a member of . The first cite specifies she was raised either in or surrounded by polygamist families. Thus, the only answer was that she was a member of one of the other small mormon-like fundamentalist sects, some of which have varying degrees of Poly life (they all practice it so some degree). So, her parents might have been Mono, but the Leader had 6 wives or something like that.

So, if you have anything else,* trot it out. *

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@AClockworkMelon

I think her point is that they had the equal right to agree to the inequality to begin with.

The issue is not about what they choose for themselves, but whether or not it’s an “excellent way to raise a family.” The issue of whether they freely “choose inequality” is not the issue. The issue is how it affects the children.

[Stoid]

@Sarahfeena

But I’m not obligated to stay home and do the housework due to the fact that I am the female. I can look for another job or I can stay home. I wouldn’t leave my husband out of the decision I eventually make, but I have the right within the context of our relationship to do either one…it wasn’t decided at the altar that I would do X and he would do Y.

None of these women are restricted or obligated to do or be or accept anything at all because they are female. They are restricted and obligated because they ***chose to be *** when they chose to be in this relationship which they were very much aware meant one man could have many wives.

Nothing and no one imposed anything on them. They imposed it on themselves.

You and your husband agreed to a number of things both explicitly and implicitly at the start of your relationship. Including the fact that you would be monogamous. You can’t UNagree to it, at least not unilaterally. That was the decision that made you comfortable and you are entitled to it.

This is the decision that made them comfortable and they are entitled to it.

All of you are right, because all of you made your own decisions about the way you wanted to live your lives and conduct your relationships.

But I’ll bet the Browns are actually walking a better walk to the talk of teaching their children to make their own choices and lead their own lives the way they want to, because I’ll bet you and your husband, if you have kids, would not dream of adopting a “Whatever makes you happy” attitude if your daughter decided to enter a plural marriage, whereas the Browns and their children have all expressed in multiple ways the fact that their children can live their lives as they see fit.

You keep tripping over your own personal value system and it’s making it almost impossible for you to allow for or respect that other people’s can differ without being bad.

AND… the fact that they are not living in perfect 24/7 bliss on all fronts proves only one thing: they are flawed human beings having to compromise and navigate differences in their relationship the same way virtually everyone else on earth has to, that’s all.

[Stoid]

Drdeth:

Reviews are meaningless: it’s a review. They watched the TV show and wrote their opinion. Hence, they got it wrong.

Janelles statement and the Canadian source are in agreement.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

They didn’t choose shit. They are brainwashed, Stockholm Syndrome zombies and they’re perpetuating a poisonous cycle of abuse onto their chidren.

[CaveMike]

I haven’t seen anything in this thread to convince me that polygamy is an “excellent way to raise a family”. Even if you ignore all of the arguments against polygamy, what is there to recommend it? Convenient child care? Lots of siblings? What does it offer over monogamy?

[Stoid]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

The issue is not about what they choose for themselves, but whether or not it’s an “excellent way to raise a family.” The issue of whether they freely “choose inequality” is not the issue. The issue is how it affects the children.

Yes.

Let’s revisit:

I think that if your goal is to raise children, especially if you want lots, polygamy is a terrific way to do it - I think it’s better for kids than monogamy, ***assuming the adults can be happy with it. ***

It seems very clear that it’s a wonderful boon to the women involved, enormous support, plenty of support and supervision for the kids… I just don’t see a downside, if you can manage to handle the expense, which is an issue for lots of families and may be less of one when you have four wives and 2-3 of them work - built in childcare!

On the whole I think monogamy vs. polygamy is all about sexual jealousy, because for raising families it’s hard to make a case that monogamy is better.

It’s actually pretty clear, so it’s funny that it’s sparked so much debate.

If the adults are happy with it, then it’s great, because in addition to parents who are happy in their relationship, you have all the aforementioned benefits for kids.

If the adults are unhappy with it, then it’s not so great. Because growing up in an unhappy house is by definition a poor way to raise children.

[wonky]

@Stoid

You keep tripping over your own personal value system and it’s making it almost impossible for you to allow for or respect that other people’s can differ without being bad.

You mean like your claims that monogamy is unnatural and fueled by sexual jealousy? That sort of respect?

[Stoid]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

They didn’t choose shit. They are brainwashed, Stockholm Syndrome zombies and they’re perpetuating a poisonous cycle of abuse onto their chidren.

Your fantasy life is very dark, you know…

[Stoid]

@jsgoddess

You mean like your claims that monogamy is unnatural and fueled by sexual jealousy? That sort of respect?

I was pretty clear about what I said, and if you go back and look, you’ll see that I’ve been pretty much the only person in this thread who has made it a point to be clear about the fact that everyone’s choices are fine for them if it makes them happy, and that no one is wrong or right.

So if you are feeling dissed, that’s unfortunate. But it’s not because I dissed you.

[wonky]

@Stoid

I was pretty clear about what I said, and if you go back and look, you’ll see that I’ve been pretty much the only person in this thread who has made it a point to be clear about the fact that everyone’s choices are fine for them if it makes them happy, and that no one is wrong or right.

So if you are feeling dissed, that’s unfortunate. But it’s not because I dissed you.

So, is monogamy unnatural and fueled by sexual jealousy? Because if you think saying that is somehow respectful and saying it’s “fine,” you have yet another set of wacky definitions. You should put out a dictionary.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Stoid

Yes.

Let’s revisit:

It’s actually pretty clear, so it’s funny that it’s sparked so much debate.

If the adults are happy with it, then it’s great, because in addition to parents who are happy in their relationship, you have all the aforementioned benefits for kids.

If the adults are unhappy with it, then it’s not so great. Because growing up in an unhappy house is by definition a poor way to raise children.

1. Only one person in this situation is happy, and it’s not the kids or the slave-wives.
2. Teaching children that women are unequal to men is shitty parenting.
3. You have zero experience raising kids, and it is absurdly presumptuous and ignorant for you to tell those of us who are raising or have raised children in normal, monogamous relationships that we are all inferior parents to some fucked up hostage situation of a “family” that you saw on Oprah for an hour.