I've got the Mormon wedding blues

The BBQ Pit
1

My aunt called the other day to tell us the good news – namely, that my cousin Tony is getting hitched. As this came on the tail of some seriously bad news (namely, my other cousin Chad getting divorced) we were all excited and enthusiastic.

And then, the other shoe dropped.

You see, my cousin is a devout Mormon, as is his bride. They’ve announced they plan to wed in the Tabernacle. That’d be fine with the rest of us… except WE CAN’T ATTEND THE CEREMONY!

That’s right! We’ve been invited to fly to Utah to attend what will essentially be a garden party. That’s because almost no-one in our family is Mormon except for Tony and one of his brothers (his other brothers have left the church, and their mom was excommunicated – more on that later). We’re a pretty diversely motley crew of Methodists, Catholics, Southern Baptists, Atheists, Agnostics, Jews, and nondemoninational Christians. Since none of us is willing to convert to Mormonism in order to attend Tony’s wedding, we’ve been exiled to the reception. They won’t even film the ceremony because of religious reasons, so we’ll never see or hear Tony and his bride saying their vows, etc.

What has really enraged everyone is the fact that Tony’s own MOTHER can’t attend her son’s wedding – despite the fact she’s footing the bill for it! That’s because my aunt was unfairly excommunicated from the Mormon church twenty years ago, all because her husband left her for another (married) woman. My aunt was excommunicated; neither her ex nor his new wife was, for whatever bizarre reason. So my dear sweet aunt, who has never harmed another soul in her life, can’t be at her own child’s wedding, but his dirtbag of a lying, cheating father and his hosebeast wife can. Where is the justice in that?

I’ve talked it over with my other aunt and my other cousins, and we’ve decided not to waste our time and money flying to Utah to eat cake in someone’s backyard. I thought weddings were all about love and family – a ceremony that says, in front of all the people who matter most, that this is the man or woman you have chosen to spend your life with. It’s supposed to be a wonderful, joyous occassion to be spent with your family, old and new – all your family. Even those who pray to the Catholic saints or YHWH or no-one at all.

At least, that’s what I thought.

.:Nichol:.

WEDDING, n. A ceremony at which two persons undertake to become one, one undertakes to become nothing, and nothing undertakes to become supportable. – from Ambrose Bierce’s “Devil’s Dictionary”.

2

Well, it’s the Temple, not the tabernacle. Anybody can go to the tabernacle.
And honestly, getting married and sealed in the Temple is probably much, much higher on the priority list then making sure their family is happy. Namely because it’s not just simple vows—it’s crucial to their eternal salvation and their future together.

3

You know, that sucks. Especially because, from what you told us in the “Ask the Mormon” thread, pepper, the LDS concept of the afterlife, and hell is so similiar to my own (that basically you have to be REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD BAD BAD to go to Hell).

:frowning:

4

pepperlandgirl – Part of me understands what you’re saying, but another part is still angry. And hurt. Probably because I’ve never had to deal with something like this before – none of us have. My family has become very adept at arranging family gatherings that incorporate everyone. This exclusive wedding just feels like a slap in the face for all the Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses, atheists, and what-have-you who have bent over backwards through the years so that Tony and his brothers wouldn’t be feel left out or ostracized during weddings, funerals, and holidays. A big, hard, cold, bitchslap.

None of us hate him and we’ll forgive him. But it hurts. It’s like we’re not good enough to share this day with him – especially his mother, who bore him and cared for him and forgave everything bad he ever did. Maybe I don’t understand. Maybe I can’t understand. I wish I did, because I love Tony and I want to support him on his big day.

.:Nichol:.

P.S. When my aunt called, she specifically said “Tabernacle” – so that’s what I repeated. Maybe’s she’s been out of the church so long that she got them confused. But one of the big points was that no-one but Tony, one of his brothers, and his father could attend the ceremony.

5

As someone who was raised Mormon I can tell you that in Mormon culture the reception is the part of the event that is meant to be about family/friend togetherness. Even if you could come into the temple there’s good chance you wouldn’t be invited to the sealing. Sealing rooms are often very small and the number of guests who can fit is severely limited. I have many friends and family members who were married in the temple and I’ve never been to the actual ceremony. If they didn’t want to included in their wedding you wouldn’t be invited to the reception. I know this probably doesn’t help and you still feel excluded and hurt but I thought I’d add a little perspective on the culture.

6

OK, I’m aware that a Temple wedding is necessary to be joined together for eternity, as opposed to for life, at least in Mormon theology. But “crucial to their eternal salvation”?? If tabernacle weddings undermined one’s salvation, according to Mormon beliefs, why would there even be such a rite?

I mean, you know far more about what LDS beliefs are than I do, plg, since you’ve been one and I haven’t, but this just doesn’t seem to make any sense at all

7

Mormon who got married in the temple here. I do understand that this practice makes for hurt feelings, but OTOH it’s very, very important to us. Eternal matters are at stake here.

Ask your family members if there is going to be a ring ceremony. Rings are not included in the temple sealing (it’s about 20 minutes long, and that includes the sealer’s little speech; the vows take 5 minutes and all you say is ‘yes’), and the usual thing to do with families that have lots of non-LDS relatives is to have a ring ceremony, where the bride and groom exchange rings, talk about their marriage, sing songs, whatever (as long as it doesn’t include actual wedding-esque vows). If your entire family, practically, isn’t LDS, then it would be a good idea for them to have one of these.

Pendgwen is correct that sealings are generally very small. The rooms hold about 30 people, tops, and any Mormons who haven’t already been through the temple themselves can’t go either. I never attended a sealing until I went to my own. It’s the custom for everyone to wait outside the temple, be happy when the couple comes out, and then have a nice big party. People drive several states away all the time in order to do that.

I have a question, and I hope it won’t offend, but what if your cousin was, say, eloping to Vegas or getting married alone on a Fijian island? Would you still feel the same?

RTFirely, I don’t quite understand your question. Do you mean the difference between a temple sealing and a civil wedding? There isn’t such a thing as a tabernacle wedding, the aunt just got a little mixed up. There’s regular weddings, and temple weddings, and that’s all the choices. You might want to ask more on the Ask the Mormon thread?

8

This might come as a shock to some folks; however, the wedding itself is something for the loving couple. The family may be invited to other stuff (such as the aforementioned ring ceremony). Or they may not. If the couple wanted to, and were able to persuade their bishop to do this although they’re temple recommend holders, they could have the “for time only” marriage (that’s the one with the words that make some of us LDS shudder: “Until death do we part”). They would then have to wait, IIRC, a year before they could get their union sealed in the Temple. But, as I just said, the marriage is between the husband and the groom. It is not between the husband’s mother and the wife’s mother. It’s not even an opportunity to remember dear ol’ Uncle Chuckie whom you’ve never seen since you got out of diapers. And it sure as heck isn’t a freaking garden party. Since the loving couple here are Latter-day Saints and are temple recommend holders, they’re following their faith and demonstrating to God and the world their intentions to live together for time and eternity. They’re just not interested in that “until one of us dies” marriage. They’re in it for the long haul: eternity.

I suppose you could spend some time reading this thread:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmormonwed.html

This site has information for the loving couple to provide the non-member family and friends in an effort to diminish or alleviate hurt feelings.

Now, consider for a moment, if you don’t mind, that some religious traditions do not permit interfaith marriages at all. We do, just not in the Temples.

9

p.s. As far as I know, there is no charge for Temple weddings. Therfore, there’s no bill to be footed for whatever it is Tony’s mother isn’t allowed to attend. The “garden party,” to use your term, is what she’s paying for and she gets to attend that.

10

Monty-chill out-she didn’t understand.

11

Wow, the LDs are more progressive than I thought! :slight_smile:

12

I was quite chilled in my comments, Guin. I see no reason whatsoever to pit an entire church because someone feels the need to characterize something important to someone else as a garden party. That comment and the malarkey about shoes dropping showed she just wanted to pit something she doesn’t understand.

I did, & I’m sure you noticed, provide both a link to the staff report on the matter and a link to a site with explanations of the upcoming event.

13

Dangit, gobear! :wink: What I should’ve posted was “between the bride and the groom.”

Now I’ll be laughing myself silly all night.

14

You know. I was engaged to a mormon fella once. His mom was planning a whole shwack of stuff, including a temple wedding. Being rather naive, I had no idea about such things. I was given a brief low-down, and from what I can gather, you really wouldn’t want to attend - unles you’re a devout mormon, you’re probably not going to get it.

Anyhow - the ring thing sounds nice, as does the garden party. If you like this cousin, I would go - he obviously wanted you to attend if he invited you.

15

Miss Manners would say:

It is the choice of the bride and groom as to how and where they choose to be married. In making that choice, they may realize that members of the family may not be able to attend. That is their choice.

What is important is that two people have chosen to come together in marriage.

A polite person will not disparage the bride and grooms chosen method of getting married, whether is in a religous setting that excludes persons not of that religion; being married in Tibet or at 17,000 feet while skydiving.

If you are excluded from the wedding ceremony because you are not a mountain climber or a skydiver, the bride and groom have still have presented you with an opportunity to honor their marriage by attending a reception in their honor, which does not require that you climb a mountain or skydive into the reception. If you choose not to attend the reception, that is your choice. But a considerate human being will realize that the wedding day is for the bride and groom, not their guests, and will respect their method of marriage, even it you are not a sky diver or mountain climber.

Whitlepig

16

Monty, for the love of god, get that porcupine out of your panties. The OP isn’t “pitting an entire religion” but blowing off some steam about being asked to travel interstate to attend a reception. For a lot of people, the big thing about weddings is being there for the vows, sharing an incredibly important moment with people who are important to you. The reception is just a nice little extra.

I agree that weddings are primarily about the bride and groom, and they have to make decisions they can live with based on their own priorities. That doesn’t mean their friends and families don’t have a right to feel hurt or upset or disappointed about it, though. Protection of one’s soul doesn’t take away other people’s right to have human emotions.

Oh, and please stop acting like a pretentious fucktard and screaming religious discrimination every single fucking time the word Mormon is mentioned. It’s already gotten really, really old. Repeat after me: It is possible to be upset with something a Mormon has done without condemning the whole church.

17

Nichol, that may be your impression and feelings about weddings, but I’m sure you can understand that a lot of people feel differently. Everyone has their own idea about what weddings mean, and the correct thing to do is respect others wishes, as you would hope they’d respect yours.

18

If you’re wondering what the actual content of the Mormon-only ritual is, try here . There are numerous other sites at which the ceremony is documented. Some admirable former bishops have scanned and posted the official booklet.

Information wants to be free.

UnuMondo

19

I just wanted to note that I’ve been a best man at an LDS wedding. I’m not LDS. This was a ceremony held in the local bishop’s house (the nearest Temple was pretty far away, and there was no way the couple could afford to go there). Technically, a wedding is distinct from a sealing, and I think that a couple can have both, although if you have access to a Temple (if, for instance, you live in Salt Lake City or nearby), it’s usual to only have the sealing. But I don’t see why you couldn’t have a non-sealing wedding ceremony to satisfy LDS and Gentile alike, followed or preceded by a smaller Sealing ceremony for a much smaller, all-LDS group. But perhaps the church tries to dissuade people from doing this.

20

I’m sure the Mormons are too nice to say it, but you. are. a. flaming. asshole! Linking to a blatantly anti-LDS booklet that purports to reveal secret rituals in addition to disparaging and defaming the LDS is yet another lack-of-merit badge as you continue in your career as a pathetic jackass.

I have no use for religion and I dislike having to defend it, but you owe the LDS folks here an apology for the slimy, underhanded tactics you employed.

Fucknugget.