Oh, and elves living in Middle Earth have the option of moving to the Undying Lands when they get tired of Middle Earth.
Except for Galadriel, she defied the Valar long ago, and joined in a rebellion in the Undying Lands, and marched back to Middle Earth. She was forbidden to return.
Not entirely accurate.
Because of his heritage, Aragorn has a lifespan that is about three times longer than normal humans in the LotR universe, and will physically age even slower than would be proportionate.
I know there’s a conversation that touches on this in the film of The Two Towers, but I can’t remember if it happens in both versions or just the extended one. It’s not hugely spoilery for anyone who hasn’t seen the second film, either, just a bit of background that gets filled in.
choie, something to be aware of if you’re thinking about read the books is that they’re written much more like a *history *than like a narrative. That was one of the things that Peter Jackson did so well–straight filmed versions of the books would have been pretty unwatchable, and not just because of length.
Fun fact: My only experience with Peter Jackson prior to LotR was Braindead (AKA Dead Alive), quite possibly the goriest zombie film I’ve ever seen. Try watching that and then imagine approaching its director with millions of dollars and one of the most beloved stories on the planet.
Info overload! Mind blown!
No, just kidding. Thank you guys for the background details and explanations. I must sound incredibly ignorant. I’m coming to this very much tabula rasa, aside from knowing several character names, so it’s all a lot to take in. Plus I’m very irreverent, probably annoying so to people who’ve studied this stuff for years. Sorry, it’s just my way. It doesn’t mean I don’t admire the story or respect others’ appreciation of it.
I’m gonna have to watch the film again armed with this knowledge; for example, I’ll be curious to see if the dynamic between Frodo and Sam as being master/servant or soldier/batman comes through more clearly, or if I still feel it wasn’t indicated strongly enough for newbies. I really thought they were friends or neighbors. I also don’t recall mention that Arwen was Elrond’s daughter. (I don’t recall hearing Elrond’s name, for that matter.) But those are probably due to my hearing issues.
On the plus side, I just realized that a whole bunch of SDMB user names are probably gonna make sense for the first time!
I do hope people will watch out for spoilers, though. I wouldn’t dream of inhibiting anyone from responding (even if I could, which I can’t), but if y’all could be careful to stick stuff in spoiler boxes if it relates to later movies or books, that’d be very much appreciated. I mean … I pretty much suspected that… (spoilers for LOTR 2 and 3, SW films and HP post-book 4 coming up):
Gandalf wasn’t really dead, at least not permanently. First, 'cause he survived Saruman’s epic beatdown before and a powerful wizard should be able to survive a drop into a chasm. Second, 'cause I know McKellan’s in all three films. But I think Alec Guinness was listed as being in the three SW films, so I thought perhaps Gandalf might just show up as a ghost or vision. Plus, sometimes falling into nothingness really is permanent, as in HP and the certain someone who falls behind the veil in Book 5.
… So while mlees’s post didn’t even come close to “spoiling” anything, I just wanna be on the safe side, if at all possible. 
Thanks!
(And I’ll save the fanfic for after at least a second viewing and also watching the other films. Sometimes stories include “foreshadowing” that will mean more to me once I actually know what’s being foreshadowed!)
Oh here’s another question. In the comic strip OOTS, which is my main source for knowledge of this sorta fantasy realm, sorcerers differ from wizards in that sorcerers are born with magic ability, and wizards learn it. Since Gandalf is a wizard, I assumed that his powers were from book larnin’. But if he’s actually a Maiar, which someone else refers to as a kind of angel, this seems to imply that Gandalf has powers as a natural part of his being. So what is the difference, if any, between wizards and sorcerers? (And why does the word ‘sorcerer’ suddenly look spelled wrong to me?) Also, do hobbits themselves have any natural abilities? Ditto dwarves?
It’s only in the extended edition, I think. And it’s basically pointing out that Aragorn at the time of the books/films is already about 80.
Wizards are in fact angelic beings incarnated as elderly men, elves and dwarves in order to support men in their battle against evil. This isn’t spelled out in the main narrative of the book (the appendices make it clearer) nor is it necessary to know that to follow the story (although Gandalf’s return makes a bit more sense).
If I recall correctly, Tolkien uses “sorcerer” rarely, and then to describe evil characters, such as the Witch King (the Witch King’s former self, actually). The Witch King and the Mouth of Sauron both began as mortal men who acquired unnatural powers through study of sorcery and/or dealings with spirits.
Hobbits are not magical, but they are very stealthy. This is a big deal in “The Hobbit” as it provides the dwarves with a reason for seeking out Bilbo’s help. I’m not sure it’s specifically mentioned in “The Lord of the Rings,” but obviously it comes in handy for a Ringbearer.
OotS fundamentally uses the Dungeons and Dragons (3.5) rules. So, you’re right on their definitions of wizards and sorcerers…but those descripitions really don’t fit for what magic is about in LotR.
Hobbits are naturally quiet and stealthy when they want to be.
If I hadn’t read the books or seen the second movie, and wasn’t enough of a movie geek to know what actors were in what films, this would be a HONKING HUGE FREAKIN’ MASSIVE SPOILER! Even choie put it in a spoiler box.
Please be careful out there people.
This is a much later convention and I’m not sure who started it ( Zelazny, perhaps? ). But in Tolkien’s world I’m not sure there is even such a thing as a “sorceror”. Gandalf and the other wizards are de facto angels clothed in flesh, forbidden under the normal course of events to cut loose with the full expression of their power. Gandalf also has an additional extraneous source of power, which he alludes to in the scene with the Balrog and I’m not sure if that ends up being explained in the movies at all. I’ll spoil it ( or someone else will ) if you like.
Not as such, much of that stuff deriving from D & D mechanics. Hobbits are just a variant on humans, sorta like pygmies. It has been argued they are naturally resistant to corruption, but I’m not sure whether that has been fully elucidated as either innate or just cultural.
Dwarves are of different and distinct origins from humans ( hobbits ) and elves and the one canonic part of their nature is an apparent resistance to direct magical control. They can’t for example be directly enslaved by the force of another’s personality, as humans were by Sauron. They can however be corrupted and are subject to normal suasion. They are also portrtayed as given to extremes of covetousness and xenophobia - again whether this is inborn or just cultural is unclear.
Yes, from what we know, with rare exceptions. A decent summary: Ansereg
It wasn’t. It was given less emphasis for the movie.
LOTR doesn’t make a similar distinction. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron AND the Balrog are all Maiar. Gandalf and Saruman are wizards, sent to Middle-Earth to aid Men in defeating Sauron. Wizards in Middle-earth - Wikipedia
I don’t know if Tolkien rigidly adhered to any kind of “class” differences in his magic orders.
Besides some innate powers, Sauron, Gandalf, and Saruman possess knowledge (“lore”) that is mysterious to the Humans, and it may also seem like magic. (I don’t recall how much of Saruman is shown in the first movie.)
So the Human’s end up calling them Wizard’s, Sorcerors, Witches, & Necromancers’ (for Sauron, before most people realised he returned to middle earth), possibly depending on which culture is doing the labeling.
They’re brave for being such short little runts. (They charge the Ogre in Moria when they thought it had hurt Frodo.)
They have some small innate hiding skills.
But that is all guessing on my part. Hobbits - Tolkien Gateway
Even if you did spend 2001-2003 on the surface of the moon and missed the fact that Ian McKellen was in the second and third films, it’s mentioned previously in this thread, without a spoiler box, so you can give your caps lock key a rest.
ETA: Hell, he’s even pictured on the DVD packaging.
“Do hobbits have any natural abilities?” - You mean besides eating, drinking, sleeping and smoking pipeweed? Nah. Thankfully, there were a couple a special hobbits around near the end of the third age.
Dwarves were good at metal working, fighting, and sprinting.
There will be points where they look like they’re about to kiss. Seriously.
You recognize the irony of you calling out something as a spoiler and you yourself not putting it behind spoiler tags, right?
If someone else is worried that a particular piece of information might constitute a spoiler, would you please not repeat it outside of a spoiler box? Thanks.
choie, this is tangential to the stories themselves, but the interviews/documentaries/etc. included with the special editions of the films are really quite amazing, too. Of course, they’re also about as long as the actual films. The commentaries are also interesting/entertaining, and if I recall each movie has several. So, if you ever find yourself with a few days to spare…
SFG is right about the extended edition extras - but don’t watch them until you’ve seen the films, oh, at least twice. It’s hard to enjoy all the special effects as much when know exactly how they were done.
I know, but it’s just a reminder to people to think twice about what they post.
I remember in one of the couple dozen times I saw Fellowship in the theater, later in its run, they’d brought it back with a teaser to The Two Towers tacked on after the ending credits. Everyone stayed because they knew it was going to be there. I think by then I had read the books, but the ROAR in the theater when (what they thought was) Gandalf was shown, made me realize that while some of them obviously knew the story and were just Gandalf fans, many of them had NO idea and were shocked and surprised to see him. That’s not apt to be a feature nowadays, but still, I just want people to be mindful of spoilers in general
Shot From Guns, yeah, of course I’m aware of the “irony”, but it was already out there, and as was pointed out, Ian is pictured on the DVD box. Plus choie knew it already.
And choie, there is a difference between the Gandalf of Fellowship and the “Gandalf” of The Two Towers, so you still have a surprise in store.
That may have been the coal fired factories sprouting up in England 150 years ago.
Which, of course, means that a dwarf’s natural abilities are totally wasted when he is asked to engage in long-distance running.
Hobbits also had unusually good eye-hand coordination (Tolkien wrote that they could easily hit most critters with stones), and could also hide from us noisy, blundering Big Folk with considerable skill.
Ah thanks all for the scoop on hobbity and dwarfy traits! I didn’t realize hobbits were considered ‘human’. Is that true of dwarves as well?
Sorry for getting mixed up re: D&D and LOTR mythoses. (Is that the correct plural?) Not only am I new to LOTR, but I’m new to D&D too – I only know it through the OOTS comic, and my roleplaying experience consists of a single night ten years ago sitting in as a newbie on a Call of Cthulhu game that was kind of a dud. Anyway, as far as I can tell from OOTS – though this itself isn’t 100% in adherence to D&D rules, I’ve read – D&D seems to take a lot from LOTR. The various creatures, for example. So I’m not sure exactly where it parts company with the Tolkein saga that clearly inspired it.
Ooh just thought of another question. Frodo’s sword seemed to glow at certain times. Is it sort of a general evil detector, or was it attuned to some specific type of foe? Or was I wrong about it glowing? Sometimes the effect seemed a bit ambiguous… i.e. I wasn’t sure if it was supposed to be always glowing or if it was just shining in the moonlight or what have you.