J K Rowling and the trans furore

[YWTF]

@Kimstu

Okay, so transgender men should have the choice between using a 3rd space and using the women’s facilities, just as transgender women should have the choice between using a 3rd space and using the men’s facilities? That seems less discriminatory than letting transgender men use their preferred-gender facilities while transgender women can’t, at least.

Yes, of course that’s what I’m saying.

@Kimstu

However, I’m not really seeing how forcing cisgender women to share female-designated spaces with male-identifying transgender men is necessarily going to make them feel less vulnerable. And as I said, if the idea is to avoid normalizing the presence of male-appearing people in female-designated spaces, then requiring male-appearing transgender men to use female-designated spaces (unless there’s a 3rd space available) seems absolutely counterproductive.

The more you come back to saying this, the more it looks like a canard to make what I’m proposing look crazy and infeasible, when really its the most practical and fair option for everyone.

If we both agree that transmen aren’t itching to be in the women’s room, then by extension, we’re talking about very few instances in which women would encounter a person who is female but presents as a man. Thus, if it’s only going to be a rare event, the normalization you’re talking about will not occur. Women will be able to expect that the only people in the room when they are naked are people born female.

I have to laugh at the idea that women are somehow unaccustomed to seeing masculine looking people in the locker room anyway. Women are a diverse bunch; the butch aesthetic has bee a thing for decades. It’s never been a big deal because a woman is a woman is a woman.

@Kimstu

When a bearded male-appearing person walks into the women’s locker room, how do you tell whether they’re a transgender man complying with the rule about using the facilities corresponding to their birth sex, or “just any bearded penis-having person that has a hankering to identify as a woman that day”?

More of this “what about trans men?” canard? I already got the memo that trans women hate being associated with women, so when I hear hoof beats I think horse not zebra.

@Kimstu, when you said that the consensus of this thread is that everyone’s feelings are worthy of respect, you seemed to earnestly believe that. But if you look at the content of your posts, that respect is severely lacking. You seem to be bending over backwards to show how unreasonable it is to want biologically-based criteria for deciding which population of strangers should undress around another population. You’ve also been comparing the desire to have a penis-free space for undressing and showering to homophobia and racism. If that is showing respect for women’s feelings, I don’t know how you define respect.