Suddenly the intensity of your tirade is much more explicable.
Did Hawaii secede while I wasn’t looking ??
Indeed. Count me in for somebody who, no matter how froofy the coffee place, if I want a medium black coffee, orders a “medium black coffee” (café filtre moyen, noir)and has always, but always, received exactly what I ordered with no back talk.
If there was ever a problem in comprehension due to overly precious size names, universal behaviour in this part of the world is for the clerk to pick up a mug and show it to me with a questioning expression or word, so that I can assent or deny. If there’s a doubt or a precision needed, I’m asked about it. That way I don’t get the wrong coffee. Quel horreur.
Bottom line, people like those described in the OP are determined to waste everyone’s time over a problem that doesn’t exist, and that’s obnoxious behaviour.
(Bonus coffee anecdote: My mother once went into the Starbucks near her hospital in the afternoon, and realized she wanted a coffee smaller than the ones on offer. She decided to flex her Italian muscle and ordered a “piccolo” coffee, and was pleasantly surprised to receive a small - i…e. smaller than a “medium-sized” - coffee.)
There was a huge flap in the Seattle area about the Starbuck’s employees complaining about how people were asking for less coffee in the cup, or pouring it down the drain and then making their own “mistos” which is basically 1/2 coffee and 1/2 milk or 1/2 soy milk with some foam on top. It’s cheaper (about 1.95 for a small). But to cut the price down further the customers were ordering a regular small coffee and then making their own mistos out of the free milk/cream offered at the napkin bar/area. Starbucks employees get pants hot over it, internet tirade ensues and the Seattle media even picked it up (last I checked).
Hysterical. I didn’t realise the employees at Starbuck’s were so hyper-sensitive over how many cream bottles they go through because the customers are cheating the system. Is it run like Walmart, I’m curious?
No, it’s not harder to make it at all than it is to make a milk shake. But it’s much harder and requires experience to make it well. Really good foam only has bubbles barely visible to the naked eye, and a smooth and even consitency, it separates easily from the milk and you can stand a spoon up in it. The difference is very noticeable from an end-user standpoint if you know what you’re looking for.
No, that’s just how high my caffeine tolerance is. Last night I had 12 coffee drinks in total–eight shots of espresso and four cups of coffee–in four hours and barely stayed awake and alert enough to read my Linguistics textbook. And by 4 AM I was still tired enough to blow right through a stop sign without noticing it and get a ticket.
Ah. The rest of the world calls this a “cafe au lait”.
I don’t know what that last part means (I don’t shop at either Starbucks or Wal-Mart), but where I work we don’t care about how much cream people use. I mean, you should see the way my parents drink coffee–they use so little grounds that the super gourmet shit hardly tastes like anything at all, and then add massive loads of cream and sugar. I can’t drink coffee at their place anymore because it’s just a frustrating experience for me. Anyway, the point is, if people use a lot of cream and sugar I chalk it up to their personal preference. Even if it’s not, who cares? Our coffee is expensive–because it’s that much better–and I could never afford to drink it regularly at full price, so who am I to judge?
Irony is not a metal.
Stranger
I still disagree that it’s that difficult at all. I’ve done it, and I have absolutely no formal training in making coffee. It’s something that took me ten minutes to learn on my own with the instruction book to my espresso pot.
The fancy name for what is basically another variety of fast food worker might’ve given some the idea that it’s difficult, but it’s not. If it were such a refined skill, there wouldn’t be scads of people who could do it for seven bucks an hour.
I don’t think fetus is saying it’s a skill that requires years of intensive training, just that it does require some training. Also, the fact that someone with basic training can make a drinkable espresso doesn’t exclude the possibility that with more training you can make an espresso that is quantifiably “better.” Whether or not you care if the foam is slightly better, there are people who do.
I’ve known a few people who’ve worked at a local coffee chain (Canada), and although you can serve a basic coffee on the first day and they train you pretty quickly on how to make a good espresso, that isn’t the full extent of their training. They also have to learn a lot about different types of coffee/roasts and other related stuff. After a couple months of employment they’re tested, and you don’t get a pay raise past entry level until you demonstrate sufficient knowledge. Is this esoteric arcana that would be impossible for anyone else to learn? Nope. Probably you could pick it up in a week or two of intensive study, and a few weeks of practice making different drinks. However, that doesn’t mean the average customer could hop over the counter and do the same job right away.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that Barista is a term that Starbucks or someone in America invented to help the unskilled little wage slaves feel better about themselves. :dubious:
From Wikipedia:
Or Cafe Con Leche in Spanish speaking countries. Cafe au lait and cafe con leche are made with heated milk and strong coffee, so just pouring cold milk over coffee is not the same. I drink a double short latte which is about as close as you can get to a cafe au lait at Starbucks.
Apparently you didn’t read my post, or you simply replaced my words with the ones you wanted to read. I won’t waste any more of my time on the issue, then.
Holy crap! It took 208 posts to get here. Better late than never, Waenara, thanks.
To the majority of the rest of you (a few have been helpful or at least less than blatantly ignorant), who have apparently been spending the whole time sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU”, I hope you find a way to develop some reading comprehension skills someday, or at least gain some respect for the working man.
You can’t get a cafe au lait at Starbucks? I also heard today that they water down their tea lattes (I had a customer who ordered a tea latte with “no water”–before her friend explained that Starbucks waters them down, I must’ve looked at her like she was from Mars) and I’ve been hearing for a while that they over-roast their coffee. Is there a reason people actually go there? Must be marketing or something. Maybe they put cocaine in the milk.
No, astro is just one of those people who aren’t sure that Hawaii (and New Mexico) are actual states. (“Do they take American money?”)
fetus, nobody’s saying you’re a dumbass or anything, but that doesn’t make coffee slinging a “profession.”
**Of course ** someone can’t hop over the bar and instantly make a cappucino the way you can. You can’t hop over the counter and make a Big Bacon Classic the way they can, either. I’m sure nobody could pick up the job in just a few minutes and do it the way you do but there’s no job in the world, really, that you can’t get pretty good at given a few months of practice. All people are syaing is that slinging joes in a coffee house is an unskilled food service job, and applying a special title to it is kind of silly. Perhaps it’s not your job title, in which case, great.
But then, I’m the kind of guy who’s thoroughly convinced that most people can do most jobs, anyway.
Depends on what you mean by “profession”, I guess. My definition is “work done regularly in exchange for money”. What’s yours?
Do you sincerely believe both of the above statements? If so, may I have a bowl of whatever you’re smoking?
I can’t? What learned skills are involved in grilling a burger and bacon and throwing lettuce, cheese and a tomato on top?
Other than the jobs you have to study intensely for 4-15 years to get? Or can you figure those out in a couple of months, too?
Did you read the Wikipedia article Waenara quoted? Or my post where I noted that I only ever say the word “barista” out of habit, and rarely then, due to the connotation the word has here? The idea that preparing espresso drinks is an unskilled job is distinctly (North) American, and the term “barista” isn’t. What do you think of bartenders?
Whatever you say, flip-fry.
I think that’s a good question Do those who object to “barista” object to “bartender”?
[sub](Nevermind the fact that barista=bartender in Italian).[/sub]
How hard is it to be a bartender anyways? 99.999% of them aren’t highly skilled (I’m thinking skilled = those professional bartenders who enter contests where you flip bottles around a la Cocktail).
How hard is it to crack open a bottle of beer or pour a pint/jug? How hard is it to make a rum and coke? Even with “difficult” drinks, it wouldn’t take more than a couple minutes to learn how to make them. The hardest thing is learning the large number of drink recipes - but how hard is it to keep a reference list/book behind the bar?
No, because “bartender” has been around for ages and wasn’t introduced in a cack-handed attempt to convince customers that the same shitty coffee is now special in some way. Should a bartender ever try and convince me that he is now an “ale sommelier” or some such guff, I will be happy to extend just as much scorn in his direction.
And yes, “barista” is an Italian word. So? “Pretentious; moi?” is a joke for a reason.
Serious question: I presume, with some training and practice, I (or RickJay) could brew a cappucino every bit as good as yours. Right? So just how much training and practice would I need? An hour? A day? A week, a month, a year, more?
Based on your earlier comments, I’m not sure if this is a whoosh or not. But, assuming it’s not: I have no idea what skills it takes to make a (good) burger. But I have no idea what skills are involved in making a (good) cappucino, either. And since it (apparently) takes about the same time and number of steps to make both, my default assumption is the skill level is about the same. Is that unreasonable?
Aw. The prospect of the “barista” or “burgero” being a happy labrador retreiver would be about the only thing that could tempt me into joining the pretentious mobs paying too much for their fatty treats.
Neither was “barista”. What’s your point? Starbucks (etc) can’t call their employees “bartenders” because in English that specifically means someone who serves alcohol.
As good as mine? I’ve only been doing it for three months, so you’d probably need about three months. But I frequent another coffeehouse when a friend of mine works, specifically to have his cappucinos–he’s been doing it for five years and it shows.
From what I know about grilling, it seems like the key is ingredients and seasoning, and after that you’re just cooking the burger (and whatever else needs to be cooked, like bacon) until it’s done without burning it. At a serious local restaurant (the example that comes to my mind is Hodad’s, though that is just speculation) I might believe that the guys who grill the burger also season it and, hell, maybe even pick the ingredients. But at Wendy’s, it seems like they just give the guys the parts and have them throw it together. I’m not saying I don’t respect them for putting in a day’s honest work, but it’s a different job.
It’s all in how you steam the milk. Good espresso is important, too, but the big deal is the milk foam. While steaming milk for a cappucino, you keep the steam wand at the right depth under the milk to fill it with bubbles and draw out the volume. Anybody can do that–catsix etc. are right. Where it gets tricky is doing it well–as I’ve mentioned earlier, good foam has bubbles barely visible to the naked eye and smooth, even consistency (there are a few tricks to help that part along). As I mentioned earlier, the standard test is to try to stand a spoon up in it (just the milk, not the cappucino). If the spoon stands up on its own and doesn’t fall to the side, you’ve got yourself some damn fine milk foam.
It is true that “baristas” don’t necessarily have any related skills before taking the job. In the US and Canada it is an entry level job, and it’s not considered very important how well the employees can do it in a chain. I mean, it’s not like being a chef, where you practice all your life andhone your skills in school. Many people–myself included–never pulled a shot of espresso before becoming a “barista”. But you can tell the difference if you’re an aficionado, just like a foodie can tell the difference between an amateur chef who’s been tooling around for a little while and a pro who’s been doing it for years.
Sounds about right.
Yes.