Jeep Liberty versus Subaru Forester

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

First, about us:

We live in rural Ohio. Our roads often remain unplowed during the winter. I work back a very bad road. AWD or 4WD would enable me to get to work more often in bad weather. We often cart fairly large amounts of stuff in our cars. I’m 5’6", but husband Steve is tall with long legs and doesn’t fit comfortably in many small cars.

Our current cars:

Steve has a '73 Mustang convertible. I have a '98 Ford Contour (with the 170 hp engine). Both cars have 100,000 miles on them. We’d be keeping both. The Contour would become my husband’s regular car.

What we’ve test driven:

Ford Taurus–nice car at a nice price. This one was used. It had a “floaty” feeling at 60+ mph.

Honda Element EX 4wd–like driving a tour bus. Cute vehicle but felt a bit underpowered and I had some handling issues coming down a steep entrance ramp.

Jeep Liberty Sport 4wd–very nice drive. We didn’t take this one on the freeway, as the dealer was situated too far away for an initial test drive.

Toyota Matrix (drove the automatic fwd because they didn’t have an AWD at the dealer)–comfortable to sit in for me except for the lack of reachable armrests. The seat had a fairly pronounced concave shape which started to make me a little uncomfortable after a while. Steve fairly uncomfortable as passenger, though tolerable as driver.

Ford Escape–nice power but it felt like a truck to me, which is strange because I think this one is rated more “car like” than the Liberty though the Liberty felt more “car like” to me.

Subaru Forester X AWD–very nice drive.

We wanted to try a Subaru Impreza, but Steve couldn’t sit comfortably behind the wheel. We’ve also sat in a Toyota RAV4, a Ford Focus wagon, and a Mazda 6 in the prettiest bright yellow you’ve ever seen.
So, as of right now, with only a couple more cars we’re even interested in looking at, it’s coming down to the Forester versus the Liberty. Both are exactly the same price, with exactly the same lease arrangement, and essentially the same features.
Advantages of the Subaru:

Better gas mileage (though still not on par with what I’m driving now).

Felt extremely solid on entrance/exit ramps. The cornering had the advantages of a car.

Full time AWD means it’s there even at those times when I don’t know yet that I need it.

Great safety ratings. If I’m going to wreck, this would be a car I’d like to wreck in. Er, that doesn’t sound right.

They had both the manual and the automatic on the lot, both in the color (green) we like. I preferred the automatic to the manual. I consider this an advantage because I got to drive both and compare them head-to-head. The throw on the clutch is astonishingly long. What’s up with that?
Advantages of the Jeep:

I’m familiar with the Jeep brand and have had good experiences. I love love loved my Jeep Wrangler. There’s something about the way they design Jeep seats and cabins that makes them extremly comfortable for my height.

Physically comfortable. We drove only an automatic mainly because no one locally had a manual on the lot. (We tried the manual on the Forester, but the throw on the clutch was so long that I couldn’t find a seat position that allowed me to be comfortable. The automatic was much better.) The Subaru’s leg room is longer, on paper. But in practice, hubby was unable to get as comfortable as he did in the Jeep.

Lots of power. 210 hp makes it go vroom (versus 165 from the Forester). I’m used to a lot of power from my zippy Contour.

Dealer is 10 minutes away. The nearest Subaru dealership is over an hour.

Solid everything. The doors, the gate, everything felt heavy and solid. Doors shut on the first try (the Subaru kept taking a couple of tries).
So, given all of this, and adding your own experiences with both makes or models, what do you think?

Julie

2

MHO
Jeep Liberty = teh uglyz
Subaru Forester = not quite as ugly as above

Have you looked at the 2004 Durango? can you say Hemi? :smiley:

Not too helpful, sorry.

3

I have a 1999 Jeep Cherokee. It’s been a good vehicle. I’ve made three trips from L.A. to northern Washington, each time carrying a heavy trailer. My Cherokee was adequate to the mission, though I would have liked more power for the Grapevine, going through the Siskiyous, that steep pass at the border of California and Oregon, and for the mountainous areas of southern Oregon. I’ve taken the Cherokee offroad on So. Cal.'s Wilderness Discover Trails. These can be very narrow, a bit steep, and angled downslope. I only took it out after a nice rain, so as to get it nice and muddy. It handled the snotty mud well, even with the stock Goodyear Wrangler tires.

The Liberty replaced the Cherokee for the 2001 year model. One big difference between the Liberty and the Cherokee is that the Liberty has independent suspension. This is not a good thing if you want to go offroad where there are likely to be a lot of rocks, since solid suspensions articulate better. (That is, they keep both wheels on the ground better.) But DaimlerChrysler know that most people don’t use their SUVs as off-road vehicles, and independent suspension is better for the freeway and around town. Unless you’re a hardcore offroader, it probably doesn’t matter.

A lot of people were angry with the change. It didn’t seem to make sense. The Cherokee was phenomenally successful, and the tooling had long since been paid for. It was extremely good at what it did, and the feeling was that they should not have messed with a good thing for the sake of pandering to the whims of fashion.

(Time out for a joke: “Is the company pronounced 'DAY-mler’Chrysler, or 'DIME-ler’Chrysler?” “‘DIME-ler’. The ‘Chrysler’ is silent.”)

There are two things I don’t like about the Cherokee, and I suspect I would have the same issues with the Liberty. First, I bought an automatic transmission. All of my other cars have had standard transmissions, and I’ve discovered I don’t like the machine choosing gears for me. I should have bought the standard transmission. The other thing is that the cargo area is rather small. (Remember, the overall length of the Cherokee is about the same as a Honda Accord.) I can’t put down the rear seat and stretch out unless I lie diagonally. Oh, one other thing: It would be nice to have a couple more inches of legroom.

Here’s an amusing thing about the Liberty. All Jeeps have to negotiate the Rubicon Trail. It’s considered the ultimate test of a production off-road vehicle. All other Jeeps made the crossing okay; but to get the Liberty across, they had teams of rock stackers to make it easier. That is, people would stack rocks in such a way that the Liberty could easily cross the rough parts and pass the test. I read that the Liberty also suffered damage to its transfer case that had to be repaired before it could continue. (IIRC, the Grand Cherokee basically suffered cosmetic damage when some of its trim was ripped off.) This information is on the Internet, but I don’t have a link at this time.

So I have no experience with the Liberty, but I have experience with its immediate precessor. I have no experience with the Suburu. But here’s my opinion anyway: I like the Jeep, and would buy another one; but I’d really prefer to have another Cherokee. I’ve always liked Suburus, and wanted one when I was in high school. Their main problem is that they’re so bloody expensive. Given a choice between a Liberty and a Suburu if price were not a factor, I’d be inclined to buy a Suburu.

You listed the advantages of the Suburu and the Liberty. What disadvantages do you see in each?

4

If both have full-time AWD/FWD available, then it’s probably a wash. I loved my Wranglers as well, but the transmission was not designed for highway FWD driving. The issue for me would be durability in the long haul, but it sounds like you are leasing.

American-built vehicles just don’t hold up well, and Jeeps have a poor maintenance record. On the other hand, when you have to replace a part on a Jeep, you won’t have to take out a loan like you will for a foreign model.

Have you looked at a Honda CR-V? Lots of room, nicely appointed, plenty of power, AWD and comfy.

5

Well, neither of them are dirt cheap. That’s a disadvantage!

I wanted to like the manual transmission in the Subaru. I don’t like paying extra for the automatic, but I simply can’t drive it comfortably with that clutch. So, that makes me a little annoyed.

The Subaru is also really far away if I need to get anything fixed/replaced. It’s quite inconvenient, especially compared to Jeep (or Ford) which is very handy. And the local Jeep dealer has a great reputation.

I don’t like the gas mileage on the Jeep.

I don’t like the window controls on either. The Jeep’s are in the center console and the Subaru’s are weird and really hard to find when you’re driving (as I discovered last night).

I didn’t like the salesperson at the Subaru dealership. She kept pushing me to take the car last night and claimed she had met my asking terms even though I stipulated that I wasn’t putting any money down and her price was with $1000 down. This is petty, but I’m often petty.

Jeeps are trendy, and I don’t like to be trendy.

The Subaru had more wind noise, the doors didn’t close solidly on the first attempt, and for some stupid reason I didn’t like how the door windows didn’t have, well, door around them. I think of that being a feature of cheap cars.

And I don’t know anyone who has a Subaru, so I don’t have that “I’m familiar with this car” confidence.

Julie

6

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety…

Forester was rated Good (highest) overall.

Liberty was rated Marginal (second highest) overall.

Just something to think about.

7

Really? Before I bought my Cherokee I was told by a mechanic that the engines are “bulletproof”. He said the problem with them was that minor little things go wrong, like poor trim falling off. My Cherokee has held up well with over 140,000 miles on it. (touch wood!) Judging by the large number of older Cherokees I see on the road, they seem to hold up pretty well in my obervation.

8

Not my experience. I’ve gone well over 100k on every car I’ve ever had and the only problem car was a 1978 MG. If Ford still made the Contour, I’d buy another one.

Julie

9

Minor (possible) quibble here: Our Cherokee had a 4 liter straight six engine that was indeed bulletproof. I understood that the Liberty has a different engine. Am I remembering this incorrectly?

BTW, we sold our Cherokee at about 150,000 miles and had had very little trouble with it. My wife, (and to some extent I, it was her vehicle) still pines for that vehicle.

10

Bumbazine: You are correct. The Liberty has a different engine.

jsgoddess: MGB, eh? Keep an eye out for my 1966 MGB thread sometime in the next several months. :slight_smile:

11

Did you look at the Hyundai Santa Fe? My folks just got one and it’s a lot of fun to drive.

What you really want is a Wrangler Rubicon though. Locking differentials, Dana 44s, wheeeeeee!

12

One deciding question: Are you a lesbian?

Bwaaahahaha, just kidding. Just from what you’ve written, It would seem to me that you are leaning Suburu, but just haven’t let yourself realize it. Take the leap. They are good cars.

13

Well, here’s just one site I found with little effort. This doesn’t cover every vehicle ever made, but I think it’s a good graphic (about halfway down the page) illustration of foreign maintenance frequency compared to domestic.

Consumer magazines routinely have comparison charts showing the generally poor mechanical reliability of many American models in their annual car-buying guides. These ratings come from consumers, not from the editors.

Historically, Jeep has been one of the worst offenders, although the Liberty is getting good reviews so far. The jury is still out on the 3.7 liter engine. The 4.0 liter in-line is a tough engine, which what you want in an off-road vehicle such as the Wrangler.

14

I have had great luck with my Cherokee (Last nights incident, nonwithstanding). It has been mechanically sound and never let me down.

However, as Johnny mentioned earlier, they are not the same as the Liberty. However, it has been out for a couple years now so most of the bugs should be worked out. If it had the 4L straight 6, I’d feel a bit more confident though.

However, I love Subarus. I really do. They are really quite different animals IMHO. The Subaru has a full time AWD whereas that is an expensive option in the Jeep (I am assuming you can still get full time AWD on it). The Subaru should easily get better milage too and I suspect would cost a bit less to insure.

Personally, I’d get an Impreza wagon over a Jeep, let alone a Forester, but I don’t think you could go wrong with either.

I guess after all is said and done, the Subbie gets my vote.

15

well im biased for the subarus…and guess what…subarus are not just for lesbians anymore lol…i have a 2000 impreza RS and love it…why not try this site

www.nasioc.com

its north american subaru impreza owners club

all subarus are welcome there…there is a forester section there so you can check out and get different info about the car…even ask questions of other forester owners…there is a local chapters section also…and a dealership section in case you want to find out info on a dealer someone had good or bad dealings with depending on if someone posted about that dealer

oh im just a member of that forum not the owner lol…good luck

buy the subaru :wink:

16

here is a link right to the forester section of the forum

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=36

17

I drive a Forester. Love it. Handles well - more “car like” than a lot of mini-suvs. I live in Minnesota and it handles the weather pretty well. Have owned it five years, has 66,000 miles on it and have done nothing to it but tune ups and oil changes (and I take CRUMMY care of cars).

Besides, I like the Dyke image.

18

Our motor pool has Jeep Liberty’s. I don’t like them. The seating is uncomfortable, it seems like a couple of planks set at a right angle. The handling feels odd and they seem real squirrely in cross-winds. My cow-orkers have all reported the same impressions.

The most requested SUV’s at motor pool?

Dodge Durango’s by a wide margin. I’ve driven them thousands of miles on all kinds of roads and in all types of weather. I gave serious thought to buying one for myself and may still do so. Great power, comfortable seating, good handling.

Whistlepig, 6 foot tall.

19

I’m chiming in with love for jeep. I learned to drive on my mother’s 1993 Jeep Cheerokee, which she still owns and drives. When I was buying a car last year I test drove several and ended up buying a Liberty and have never looked back. in 18 months I’ve never had a problem with it. She’s solid, dependable and very comfortable. The only complaint is she does have a little handinlg issue in high cross winds, but cracking the windows right can cut down on that signifigantly.
I cannot say enough good things about Jeep quality. Like I said, my mother still has her ten year old Jeep cheerokee and adores it. She just bought the new Porsche Cayanne and still drives the Jeep half the time. A male friend also has a Cheerokee, just as old, and it’s never given him any problems either. Get the car that’s best for you, but I’ll own Jeeps till they stop making cars.