I knew that this was one sick fucker from a few things I’ve run into. This link gives you the an FBI file on him. It’s really gross and beyond being sick.
Yeah, I just finished reading that too, but it’s all pretty much old news. Most of that had already been told in the A&E Biography about him (which was even grosser, because of the PICTURES!)
Anyway, no point in getting mad about it NOW! (The repeated bumblings of the cops are a bit distressing, though!) He died a horrific death, and even that was too good for him, but he’ll never do anything like it again.
I’ve seen a couple of the pictures he took of his victims, and thought sick. This article makes me realize he was a lot worse than I imagined.
I don’t normally track information on someone like him, but he was in the prison about six miles from where I live. I’m a local that was being curious.
What’s so amazing is how many close calls there were and how long it went on. We’re talking years and years and years. Police had been in his apartment several times and never found anything, even though there were skulls on the bookcases, and at one time there was even a dead body in the next room. :eek: I remember from the A&E show one of the neighbors would always smell him boiling the bodies and confronted him about the smell; he apologised and said he was cooking “chitlins.” She said she never did anything about it because that’s exactly what it smelled like. BLECH! If it’s something that intrests you you might try to find that episode at your library, or check the website to see when it will air again. It’s quite fascinating in a horrible, horrible way.
Okay. I know I’m going to get flamed severely by a lot of people for saying this, but part of me honestly feels sorry for him.
Having read what he said about his victims . . . he seems, to me, to be someone who had a rotten childhood or otherwise got the shit end of the stick. I am NOT trying to justify his actions, just to say that anyone who ends up thinking that the only way to keep someone with them is to kill them has suffered a lot already. That’s why I feel a bit sorry for him.
It’s now probably a moot point, but we don’t know to what extent his alcoholism (such as he admitted to) affected his actions.
Again, I am not trying to say the man had a valid reason for anything he did. Whenever I see someone who committed such a heinous crime, or in this case so many of them, I try to find out about that person. In some cases they are not mentally stable.
I agree. I feel sorry for him, Bundy, Gacy, et al, in the same way I feel sorry for a rabid pit bull. It makes me terribly sad to think that these could have been normal, happy people had it not been for chance, genetics, upbringing. The potential was there, they lost the genetic crapshoot. And they took others out with them.
Won’t stop me from putting them down like that same rabid pit bull. But I still wish it could have been different.
Oh please, pun. Lots of people have shitty childhoods. They don’t go out and kill people. Plenty of people are alcoholics. They don’t go kill people. Dahmer used whatever he could find as an excuse for what he did. His being an alcoholic made him kill people? Oh please. He did it because he placed no value on the life of another human being. The man is (was) a sociopath.
Anyone who is THAT uncaring of the lives of other people doesn’t deserve pity. They deserve to die. And quite honestly, I wish they could fucking die the way they killed their victims.
Sick? Two words. Ed Geene. (That is how you spell it, right?)
Anyway, I wouldn’t feel bad for them. Bundy was cunning and he knew it. The way that he charmed his victims was very clever. And he knew exactly what he was doing the whole time. Gacy was just smart as hell. Got a job as a clown at birthday parties to become trusted. Now that’s thinking. I think I remember reading somewhere that he even helped look for one of the “missing” boys. You shouldn’t feel sorry for these people. No, I’m not going to flame you. Feel bad. But you really shouldn’t.
Falcon- What’s the point in revenge? You sound like you’re defending the death penalty.
Yes, he was a sociopath, how is that worse than someone who did it because they had a fucked up life? These are people to be pitied, because I don’t think they had any real choice. They were fucking psychotic.
Freak -
Because a sociopath KNOWS what he is doing. He sees you, me, and everyone else around him as objects. Crazy? Not by the legal definition of the word. SOmeone who did it because they had a fucked up life will most likely NOT kill strangers. They’ll kill the people who fucked up their life. Or who they THINK fucked up their life.
And defending it? Maybe. But I’m sorry…to see bastards like him only have to spend life in prison sickens me. They get off easy. Their victims didn’t.
Falcon- The same thing that applies to crazy people also applies to sociopaths, they didn’t decide to be the way they are. So, in a sense, they’re victims too. Victims of God, or genetics, or bad chemicals in their brains. Granted, I don’t think that means you should let them run free, but saying they don’t deserve pity is just plain callous. They did some awful shit, but would you want to be them? Do you think it would be fun to be Dahmer (before he died, that is)?
And the problem with the death penalty is that you can never be absolutely 100% sure someone committed the crime. And even if they could be sure, it’s hypocrisy to say “We can kill people, but you can’t.”
Why does everyone have to have a label in todays society?I believe there are people in this world who are just plain EVIL. Society has a way of excusing everyone. If you look long enough you can find a social disorder to describe almost anyone.
I know that. Personally, I think the entire race should be pitied. We’re a fucked-up lot of people, some of us more than others.
“In the end, after he’d been caught and sent to prison, Dahmer did express remorse at what he’d done. He said he always knew what he was doing was wrong, but that he couldn’t stop himself. . . . ‘But it just seems like my emotion, my emotional side has been deadened.’”
I don’t think that’s entirely his fault. Some people have a greater capacity for feeling pain, remorse, etc. Some have great trouble feeling that. And after killing again . . . and again, repeatedly, one would think his “emotional side” would have been deadened somewhat.
I can think of at least one person who did have a shitty childhood and did go killing people. And a lot of other people who were abused as children and went on to do the same to others. It seems that you either break out of it or don’t. Sometimes it’s a question of being in the right place at the right time and breaking the mold. Sometimes people aren’t that fortunate.
I’m not trying to pain this guy as a sympathetic character. I’m just saying that, to me, there are things about him that tell me he was a truly sad human being. No, that doesn’t warrant what he did. But it does establish a mental incapacity for certain things, remorse among them.
[quote]
Originally posted by Silver_Fire
You shouldn’t feel sorry for these people.
Well, tough, because I do feel a bit sorry for them. I tend to have pity for people who got dealt a shit stick in life, whether or not they were able to make it sweet. Dahmer wasn’t. What he did is, in my opinion (and in the opinions of most of us), totally wrong. I’m just saying there is room to feel pity for people.
Falcon, you come and show me someone who has never been uncaring of the life of another person. Granted, it probably won’t be as horrific as what Dahmer did. He did, however, express remorse for what his actions. He said he knew they were wrong. That’s more than can be said for some people.
I read a lot about serial killers. I admit it. Their psychology fascinate me. Dahmer was interesting because he came so close to being caught so many times. He did not have the skill or finesse as a more intelligent killer like Ted Bundy. Nor did he have the social connections like John Wayne Gacy. The latter two were mostly organized killers and Dahmer was more of a disorganized sort. Dahmer was just, well, for lack of a better word; lucky.
Do I feel sorry for him? No. He was intelligent enough to know that what he was doing was wrong. He was not found criminally insane. And this is a minor point but there is no psychological definition of “insane” there is only a legal definition. I think it’s called the M’Naughten rule (from England) that we base our “insanity” test on. Basically, it’s if they know wrong from right and/or are able to conform to the law.
Dahmer was found capable of that.
iampunha – I’m not going to flame you. There have been a lot of studies conducted about what drives these people. Child abuse and drug/alcohol abuse seem to be commonalities. However, as Falcon pointed out, a lot of other people suffer from these and do not grow into killers. As of this date and to my direct knowledge, there is no clear cut “eureka!” in determining the “why”.
Silver_Fire – Ed Gein. He was the inspiration for both The Silence of the Lambs and Psycho. He started out with corpses from a grave yard but then moved on to live victims. He too had a horrific childhood.
While I have many reservations about the death penalty I also recognize that there is no psychological help for these people. About the only thing I agree with is they do need to be locked away beyond the reach of society. But I have a hard time with the idea of killing anyone. I think my opinion might be different if they had killed someone I knew and loved. I think revenge would enter into it. That’s a different debate, though.
I remember reading that the FBI struck out in trying to develop a serial killer profile. As has been pointed out here they come with different personalities and IQs.
The only things they seemed to have in common were that they were males (except for two) and didn’t have a pet.
There’s also the “triad” of bedwetting, violence to pets, and pyromania; all normally considered signs of a child who is likely to grow up to be a killer (serial or otherwise). Dahmer didn’t exhibit any of these “symptoms”.
Dahmer also had a pretty normal childhood, rather than the fucked-upbringing that impunha seems to be talking about. From the article mentioned above:
Also, from this article at the Crime Library:
(all bolding mine)
And, as was said before, many people are abused in some fashion as children, and most of them don’t go around killing other people.
And, pun, I’m sorry. He and his ilk are not deserving of sympathy, IMNSHO. Of course he expressed regret while he was in prison. I’m afraid I don’t believe he ever actually regretted what he did. I think he was being manipulative. I think if he’d ever been released or escaped he would have gone right back to killing until he was caught again.
Note:
I recommend the Crime Library for reading up on serial killers & crime in general.
dogsbody – from my reading, Dahmer “played” with road kill and actually killed a pet.
Well, if this isn’t one of the oddest things…I have to disagree with lots of people I usually completely agree with.
I, too, have always felt a little sorry for Dahmer. I have read extensively about serial killers and their personalities and pathologies and I still feel sorry for him. I, too, feel a very deep unhappiness about him and I do not think he was a very manipulative person. If he was really that manipulative, he could have probably convinced a couple of the guys to stay without having to knock them unconscious first!
He felt remorse in prison but it was never a “I’m terribly sorry–I don’t know what came over me–I’ll never do it again!” kind of remorse. It was more like “I know it was wrong but I couldn’t help it. I’m sorry they died but I could not stop myself. I wish I had cared enough to stop it but I didn’t and I don’t know why.”
Here’s an interesting link to Hack, Stab, Shoot, Throttle, and Mayhem in General. Dalmer is included along with many others, notable and otherwise.
luck,