Jeffrey Dahmer

Looking through the site I linked in my last post, I came to the conclusion that many (most?) serial killers are some pretty pathetic people. They have no realdirection and the people they kill are mostly ones that would otherwise have no effect on their lives one way or another. Hookers, it seems, take a special beating from them due to their availability. Also children.

Our boy Jeff was one, sick puppy and I can feel sad that he was like that. But on the other hand, I got a hell of a lot more sympathy for his victims and their families. And what happened in the end, a broom handle through the eye, well, tough shit! Sometimes it be’s that way and it’s too bad that victim # 1 couldn’t get to a broom.

Ya, and I’m sure the Jail hack that “Accidentally” let Dahmer into General Population felt sorry for his ass too…

Jail Guard- “Woops, he wasn’t supposed to be in there…”

Which, as I said to someone earlier is synonymous with-

“I think he had an accident”
“He musta fell down the stairs”
“I think he ran into the door”

And several other very cliche phrases for ways to say that you’re guilty as charged but nobody could prove it. :slight_smile:

So another worthless serial killer is gone…who really cares? Not me…

-Sam

I agree with what Andros said. I did feel pity for him because he was so royally screwed up. And the most miserable people in the world will never know what it is feels like to be secure and happy, for whatever reason. And that sucks.

But I definitely think he should have been removed from society forever. I personally thought he should have been sentenced to death from the get-go. I’m a supporter of the death penalty, esp. in cases where guilt is not in doubt. And when you have bodies boiling on your stove and legs fermenting in barrels…well, clearly his guilt was never in doubt.

So, he’s gone. And maybe he’s in hell. I don’t know. What I do know for certain is that the families of the victims he butchered have been relegated to hell. I’ll hopefully never know the pain they live with every day because of that twisted soul.

Want to see milder sociopathic mentalities? Find the revenge/dirty tricks thread(s) on this MB and read seemingly normal people joking about sending pizzas to someone’s house or posting fake yard sale notices, etc. etc. pranks ad nauseum. With no consideration whatsoever for the inconvenience, frustration, and financial losses incurred by the innocent pawns of their moronic tricks, people demonstrate sociopathic symptoms. A friend of mine ditched his girlfriend and she responded by barraging him with pizzas and taxis all night long. What did those poor pizza and taxi people ever do to her? The criminal psychopaths and sociopaths we read about have gone way over the line but the most fascinating thing about them is how they are not that far removed from being “normal” people.

Remember those old “Teachings of Don Juan” books by Carlos Castenadas, about the Yaqui sorcerer? They were absolute crap and the most outrageous thing I read in them was when Don Juan said that some people you meet aren’t real and only briefly appear to interact in your personal spiritual quest. Believe that shit and you are well on your way to being a sociopath. Every human being is real and the center of their own personal universe. Even if you don’t respect them as individuals you must respect their life and humanity.

Falcon is right on - sociopaths see people as “objects”. Look around you and you’ll see people dehumanizing and objectifying other people all the time.

Oh yes, he did. He spent a jolly old time killing squirrels and other wildlife, making little “altars” with their bones, and putting their skulls on the fence outside his family’s property in Bath, Ohio. In Cleveland, I was a little more than an hour up the highway from Bath, and we all got to hear about this stuff ad nauseum.

REading about the one who almost escaped always makes me want to vomit.
Yes, I pity him, but only mixed with contempt. I pity the fact that a human being could go wrong. That’s all.
Hell, Hitler had a bad childhood. So Eminem, and Roseanne, and Stalin.
And yet, so did some people who turned out okay…
The fact that he was almost caught so many times and the police fucked up sicken me more than anything he did.

[random thought]

A couple years ago, I was walking on the South Side in Pittsburgh, and I passed a local diner. They had advertised on the board outside:

“Today’s special – The Ed Gein Lunchplate – ask manager for details!”

I was so shocked, I couldn’t believe it. Not really offended (although I can see how some people would be), but I just couldn’t believe that a business would actually do that
[/random thought]

At the risk of sounding like a weirdo, I have a large library of true crime books (approximately 300 books) and I have taken a few college courses on the criminal mind. You would be amazed at how many sickos are (or was until they were caught) are running around loose.

In all the books and studies I have done, the only thing that is consistant is that 99% are males and a small percentage have had rough childhoods. Women tend to kill people they know and love. Other than that, there isn’t anything that ties them together. Some serial killers have had wonderful childhoods and other severely abused children grow up to be caring adults who would never hurt a fly.

The FBI has made a profile of serial killers, although there are the exceptions.

Robert Scigalski of the FBI writes:

*"In most cases you will find a bad childhood. A large percentage exhibit a trend of cruelty to animals when younger.

There are two classifications of offenders.

Organized offenders are apt to plan their crimes, use restraints, commit sexual acts with live victims, use a vehicle to abduct or transport victims, and display control over a victim to induce the victim to show great bodily fear.

The organized murderer also is more intelligent and possessed job skills. He engages in “controlled” conversation with victims, hides bodies and follows new media accounts of his crime.

Organized offenders have a high birth order, often being the first born son of a family. Although the organized offender has an average or better than average IQ, he often works at occupations below his abilities, yet prefers skilled occupation. His work history is sporadic.

"Disorganized serial killers aren’t so smart and tend to leave weapons at crime scenes. The also perform acts on the dead and keep bodies around. The depersonalize or dismember victims and don’t use or have a vehicle for criminal purposes.

They tend to kill when the urge strikes them. The crime scenes are random and sloppy with their violence sudden, with very little conversation with the victim.

He is usually socially inadequate, often never married, lives alone or with a parental figure and lives to close proximity to the crime scene."*

It is my personal opinion that in some cases there are undiagnosed brain disorders that causes certain people to be more susceptible to become killers. I think that this may explain how some killers who have had wonderful childhoods still go one to become murders and why some abused children go on to become caring adults while others turn into killers. I think there are a certain chain of events that can trigger this disorder. I do not think this is true for every serial killer, I just think it may be true for some.

Oh, and JFTR - Dahmer did kill and abuse animals. He would decapitate them and then boil their carcasses. In fact, he decapitated a large dog and hung the body on a fence not long before killing his first victim.

Okay, I shouldn’t have brought up the “triad” in connection with the rest of my post. Sorry - it was late and I wasn’t as thorough as I should have been. (Although I would like to note that childhood cruelty to animals is only one of the three “symptoms”).

However, my point was that not every serial killer necessarily had a bad childhood, and that not everyone who had a bad childhood becomes a killer (serial or otherwise).

So Dahmer played with road kill and was fascinated with dead animals? Should have went the “Quincy” route.

I for one am pleased to hear that, when I have iampunha’s, Andros’ and PunditLisa’s heads in my freezer, they will have sympathy for me because I got spankings as a kid.

That may be one of the lamest things I’ve heard this month, and I’ve been reading MadHatter’s threads so that’s saying something. Are you saying that you walk into a guys apartment, he has skulls on his bookshelf, body parts in the freezer, 55 gallon drums full of acid and human bones, a guy saying “I’m sorry I killed all those people, here’s how I did it.” and you’re NOT SURE HE DID IT!!?!?!

Milo, my pity is an acknowledgement that serial killers aren’t just born that way. They are created.

A child here was recently beaten to death here by her own mother because she got into trouble at school. X-rays and bruises from her autopsy told of similar abuses. By all accounts, she lived a hell on earth at the hands of her own mother. Do you feel sorry for her?

Now, imagine if she had made the horrible mistake of surviving that beating. What kind of adult do you think she would have turned out to be? What are the chances of her turning into a normal, well-adjusted happy woman? And whose fault would it be? Because if you’d take this same, sweet little girl and put her into a loving home and you’d have a completely different outcome.

It’s easy for you to smugly say, “Dahmer should have been a coroner.” We’ll never know what he experienced or witnessed to lead him to commit such horrific acts. But I can GUARANTEE you that it must have sucked VERY badly if he ended up cutting up little kids.

So, yes he does deserve pity in addition to our contempt.

If I’ve learned anthing from this, its that I’m never eating chitlins.

Silver_Fire: Actually, you spell it Ed Gein. And yeah, he was certainly, well, odd.

Also, for those of you who are interested in further reading, Joyce Carol Oates wrote a book, Zombie, that’s a barely fictional account of Dahmer. And I have to come down on the side of those who don’t feel even a little sorry that he was killed. I disagree with the death penalty, but sometimes I think it’s a pretty good idea.

Waste
Flick Lives!

BTW, where the hell were Jeffrey’s parents? Last time I checked, vivisecting squirrels is a sign that perhaps your kid needs a little help getting his head straight. And don’t tell me nobody knew he was doing it, because they did. This guy should never have gotten as far as laying down masturbating next to dead bodies, let alone creating his own.

And I’m sorry, but alcoholism and drug addiction have affected MILLIONS of people, who have never so much as thought about raping and killing (not necessarily in that order) other people.

And those jail guards certainly earned their bribe that day…

An Ed Gein lunchplate? Not the grossest thing I’ve heard. The students cafeteria at the University of Colorado at Boulder is called the Alferd Packer Grill. Named, of course, after the Rocky Mountains’ most famous cannibal. The school used to have “Packer Days”, sort of like a school spirit week, with some of the most hideous “thing”-eating contest I have ever heard of.

Sorry to Jeffy’s mom & dad, but I have no pity. None.

Dahmer’s mother was disturbed by his boiling road kill, but his father (IIRC - was a chemist) felt that it was a natural curiosity to learn about the skeletons of animals. For the most part, it appears that his parents treated him good.

Other than Dahmer’s confession, there is no solid proof that he actually ate part of his victims. Some feel that it was made up for the notariety.

Of all the cases I have read about, the worse has to be Theresa Knorr. Over a period of a few years, she had her teenage sons torture and kill two of her daughters. She makes Dahmer look like a choir boy.

There is a book written about it called “Whatever Mother Says. . .” by Wensley Clarkson.

Of all the cases and stories I have read about, this was the only one that gave me nightmares.

Texas Chainsaw Massacre was also loosly based on Eddie Gein. There is a movie about him that is going to be released sometime this year or the first part of 2001.

After reading many people write that they are not sorry that Dahmer died, I just want to clarify something.

I do not feel sorry for him because he died. I think death was absolutely the best thing for a man as twisted and sick as Dahmer. I would not have blinked had he been shot to death by the cops who discovered his crime. I would not have cared in the slightest if the family members of his victims had descended on him in a fit of mob justice and torn him limb from limb.

I do feel sorry for him because of the overwhelming and sickening compulsion he felt to do these things. I feel sorry for the fact that he had these feelings even though he knew they were wrong and he felt that he had to act them out instead of getting help. I feel sorry for a man who was trapped inside the very sick workings of his own mind.

I cannot explain why I feel sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer and not for, say, Ed Gein. There is just something very sad and melancholy about Jeffrey Dahmer that causes me to somewhat sympathize with him.

Interesting thread. I’ve done some true crime reading, but am far from expert.

On a purely human level, I understand what evilbeth is saying. Dahmer at least acknowleded the evil he did. The fact that he didn’t sto[ until he was caught puts him as just another serial killer.

But somehow the flicker of humanity left that was capable of remorse makes him somewhat less alien than Bundy, Gacy, etc. They stayed icy and manipulative to the end. I know this doesn’t make sense, but the simple fact that Dahmer retained enough shreds of humanity to recognize the scope of his evil somehow makes him seem slightly more sick than soulless like Bundy, etc.

Sorry, this probably clarified nothing, mainly because I’m not sure how to make sense of anything like this. It’s probably superstitious and stupid and pointless, but it seems like some people are born with crucial human attributes missing. Some lesser examples “pass” in normal life with their feral instincts held in check by pragmatism. But the real hard cores…the spark of humanity seems left out of their makeup.

Confused and disturbed,
Veb

And none of them come even close to the true perversity that was Hitler. Stalin. Ivan the Terrible-now THERE was a psycho. I mean, that guy was more fucked up than any of them. Well, maybe Peter the Great was pretty messed up too.

Ivan the Terrible showed all the classic signs-bad childhood, tortured animals, killed his own son because said son was angry with his father for hitting son’s pregnant wife.
Excessive religious zeal. Had a few elephants hacked to bits for not bowing to him. Organized massive bloody executions.
Although, they do say he took mercury as medicine.