The default setup for Windows is horrendous by any standard. Right after installing Windows, you need to go through and set it up properly. After that, it is just as easy to use as a Mac, and has more versatility.
I can’t even remember all the things you need to change, but IIRC by default it does not tell you where you are downloading things, and it actually hides file types from you. Crazy stuff.
Agreed, but nothing like that exists yet.
Depends on your browser.
Should someone be using IE for example and start downloading if they click that little “do not show” button that window will never show up again (ETA Only during the download) so you’ll forget where you are downloading your files sometimes. It’s best to just have everything go to the desktop by default. If it gets cluttered atleast you can see where the files are easily and move them if need be. Then again, some people have way too much shit on their desktop by default. I don’t understand why the start menu isn’t easy enough to use for opening a program.
I feel sorry for children who’s parents won’t turn off Vista’s UAC. My niece is constantly being hassled by UAC.
On another note, Like another poster here said, I never get viruses, I have used PCs for nearly 20 years and only had AV software in the last year - and that’s because my place of work requires it for those using gotomypc to log into their work PCs.
it’s AVG free and it never finds viruses - it does warn me about tracking cookies though.
The basic antivirus tactic is - don’t click on that email that says “these were the documants you rekwested” with an attachement like this ducyument.doc.exe
And similar things.
I would think most OSs have a default download location. The Mac has a Downloads folder, and a shortcut built into the sidebar on every Finder window. Also, most browsers I’ve used have a download manager that has a button that will automatically navigate to that particular file.
How hard is that?
Both my family and my food are calling me now. I would love to continue this. If it’s still going tomorrow - I shall return.
It’s probably that most programs default to sticking a shortcut on the desktop when installed, and since the best advice for computer users is ‘don’t fuck with what you don’t understand’, people who don’t know a lot will just let the defaults through.
If you’re given a PC at work, I can see that. Or, if you’re so poor, that you had to buy an economy PC, or maybe it was a gift, I can see that.
But, most people have a very real choice as to what kind of computer they buy. Same as cell phones, TVs and other electronics. Take the time to learn the basics, at least. ESPECIALLY before you commit to the purchase.
I came in here, because I was curious as to what the rant about Windows was this time. I saw Tao’s post about Mac’s not shipping with a multi-button mouse, and felt compelled to correct the mistake. The Pit is a place to bitch about the board, the users here, or yes, life’s ugly adventures… so, if there’s any place to be harsh, it’s here. I feel like being a little harsh today. 
Well, I’m not speaking of shortcuts in general which are auto-installed. It seems a lot of people that even know what they are doing like a cluttered desktop.
I keep it simple. I have a “desktop folder” on my desktop for all of the shit that ends up their. That way when I download something or install something it’s easy to find and it keeps the actual desktop nice and clean so I can SEE my cool wallpapers.
Well now that that I understand your monolith reference, I no longer feel like being harsh 
There’s a colleague at work who’s a Mac fan-boy, and he pretty much exactly looks the part - long often unkempt hair, a collarless t-shirt, usually black with some design on it, a pair of jeans that look like they haven’t been washed for a week, age 20. I get on with him but on the mac-versus-pc advert I’m the PC. I usually refrain from laying into him about the mac thing but sometimes when the topic comes up I can’t help but do it 
Anyway, When I bought the PC I am currently using (intel core2 quad core, 4gb ram, geforce 8800 Ultra, 24 inch monitor and 22 inch monitor (one above the other) edit: one terrabyte HD (well two 500gbs in raid 0 for the speed) ) as you can see by the specs, cost wasn’t an issue for me. But I didn’t once consider going for a Mac because I have the following pre-conceptions. Please correct them if they’re wrong…
You are partly paying for the brand, so you’re paying more for the same power.
Many popular games won’t run on it.
You have less freedom regarding the hardware inside (can you choose from a large list of processors, amounts and types of ram, graphics cards, motherboards, fans, psus, case, monitor brand and size, etc etc…)
For someone with 20 years PC experience there may be a period of time needed to re-adjust to the HCI style of the mac (Human Computer Interface - It’s a poncy industry way of saying - how a typical person and computer interact with each other)
When I bought my PC I had the following needs - Something to play the newest games, something to use the internet with, something to write software on, something to create 3d art on, something to listen to music, watch films and tv on.
I know you can probably do all that with a Mac. I’m just listing what my needs were.
If I have disdain for anything, it’s for those who can’t be bothered to learn their shit. Own up to it. Take some time and read the fucking manual or watch a tutorial. If the precious version you’re using has changed the interface around in the new version, learn where everything has been shifted. I’m positive there’s documentation somewhere. Things evolve — evolve with it or go extinct.
Sure, ask questions from people who have learned their shit every once in a while, but if you can’t be bothered to put a worm on the hook, maybe you shouldn’t fish.
Some things seem to de-evolve. I did a Software Engineering course. Part of that was learning about HCI. Many basic rules of that ‘science’ are being left out when software is designed.
Also, why should we HAVE to read a manual - that’s so 1980s. We are moving forward, a lot of things are being designed with the idea that you learn them by using them in mind. If I wanted to go and read manuals on how to use Vista I’d already be going down the route of becoming an IT manager - It’s his job to read the manuals not mine. Mine’s to use it, to ‘know how to drive the car, not how to change it’s engine’.
If you insist that people shouldn’t complain, and should instead go away and ‘give in to the complexity’ and learn to live with it. And I insist that things don’t need to be complicated to begin with and those people who use that stuff shouldn’t have to be limited to a mac if they want simplicity.
I’ll say that again.
People shouldn’t have to be limited to a mac if they want simplicity.
…Then we’ll have to agree to disagree.
They shouldn’t have to read a manual. I’m ranting at the system, not at not being able to use the software. I am pretty damn good at using the software. But that doesn’t stop me from being annoyed at the sheer number of steps you have to follow just to open … a… file.
edit: Like an electric toothbrush an OS is a tool. I don’t want to have to press sixteen buttons to turn my electric toothbrush on.
Sure - a complicated task like creating a sword and rendering it so it looks nice - that CAN be allowed to be difficult and require reading a manual.
But a task like finding and opening a document should be as simple as possible because there is absolutely no need for it to be complicated
That’s cool Lob, I didn’t mean to get or appear nasty with you. I’ve been a Mac user since '91, so I know the misconceptions people have about the Mac, and the “typical, snobby Mac user.”
When asked for advice by my friends and family about what kind of computer they should get, I tell them they’re asking the wrong guy (because I’m so biased). Then when they get a PC, they eventually have an issue, I get a phone call, and I tell them they’ve called the wrong guy (because, even though they perceive me as a computer geek, I know squat about Windows).
But lately, I see that’s been turning around. Now I get phone calls about which Mac they should get. Or, this was here on Windows, where is that on a Mac?
I can’t tell people what computer they should get. And I’m not going to try and tell you what kind of computer you’re better off with, misconceptions or not. I simply refuse to do people’s homework for them. I have my reasons for using a Mac, and some of them may be that I started on a Mac, and it’s just what I know. Or, it may be that I really do find it a better computing experience. I have opinions about Windows, certainly, but I’m not going to be so arrogant as to think Mac OSX or Apple’s hardware is somehow superior to someone who uses Windows, and why they chose that over something else.
You don’t see any value in what Apple has over PCs, that’s your call. I do, and think they’re a deal-and-a-half compared to an equivalent PC.
Then, if that’s the case when it comes to Windows or MS, I can’t understand why you’re still touting it.
Because it’s the only thing that allows me to do the full range of things I want to do with a computer -
I’m stuck with it.
I actually quite like Vista, but liking something doesn’t mean you are not allowed to bitch about parts of it.
I’d like it even more if I’d been able to design it
The reason I’m the wrong guy to ask is this - I really can’t be arsed to fix your PC problem which I could probably do quite easilly. Ask someone else.
I wish this worked on family members.
At work I say (politely) “Ask IT”
When the Mac was devolving through the Mid-90s, I stuck with it because that’s just what graphic designers used and that’s what we had at work. If the same thing started to happen today, I’d REALLY take a close look at my options. (Windows or some flavor of Linux).
You seem to harbor a hate for the Mac that’s built up gradually, because of the culture associated with it, or whatever. (?)
I don’t want to hear that things shouldn’t devolve, then see how tight your grip is on Windows, after you complain how they seem to be going backwards… that’s where I’m scratching my head here.
The Mac is most certainly been going forward for the last 10 years. But, they’re too expensive, they don’t play many games, they can’t run Windows, and they don’t ship with multi-button mice, right?
I don’t hate Macs. I am just the atypical savy-PC user for whom it is fashionable to point out the reasons why there are slightly more PCs in the world than Macs.
I don’t understand your statement about not wanting to hear about de-evolution. What kind of person wouldn’t want to hear that things shouldn’t de-evolve?? If I were to rephrase that as simplistically as possible it’d be “I want things to de-evolve”. I don’t understand that.
As for the last part of your post. I did ask (and it was a genuine non-rhetorical question) you to correct me on those points.
I beg to differ. I found mouse gestures to be annoying. No problems having them for people that want them, but the vast majority of people are used two buttons and context menus. Context menus Just Work. Unlike gestures if you’re out of practice.
I don’t wanna have to be paranoid about moving the mouse wrong when using the computer. What the fuck do mac people do when using photoshop?
Also I’d like a cite of your assertion PCs don’t have sound. It comes standard on the motherboard these days, but you can use a separate sound card if you want.
See unlike over priced trashy apples, PCs let you have choice. Want high end 7.1 channel surrund sounds? Sure. Want to save money and get decent high fi sound built into the mother board? Sure.
PCs aren’t control freaks like that over priced garbage apple makes.
Also just to show how behind the times macs are, PCs have had two button standard mice since the 80s atleast. Fucking ignorant stupid macs just got them standard a few years ago.
That just shows you how far apple has it’s head up it’s ass.
btw Musicat 2 is needed for proper context menu support. Not that half blood minded apple click. 3 is nice too. the more buttons the better to a point, but 2 is the bare minimum.
