Jews and Christians MUST believe in witches

. . . that is, if they believe the Bible / Torah is the divinely inspired word of “God.” In Exodus 22:18, “God” tells Moses, “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”

One problem: how do you identify a witch? Can any devout Christian or Jew tell me how to do so? Also, what secular laws exist or have existed concerning the execution of witches?

Note: obviously, my underlying point here is that witches do not exist and anyone believing in the Bible is subscribing to superstitious hogwash, but I’m genuinely interested in other points of view on this. I believe that this passage along with many others in the Bible (especially those condoning slavery in both the Old and New Testaments) have done a tremendous amount of harm to mankind. In my opinion, few things have inhibited human progress more than deity-based religions have. The fact that God in the Bible commands us to kill witches right after commanding “Thou shalt not kill” should give any freethinker (i.e. - those not brainwashed with Christianity or Judaism from birth) reason to doubt these ancient writings.

Additional note: I put “God” in quotes to indicate that “God” in the Bible does not mean the same thing to me as it does to religious types. To me, “God” as referenced by deity-based religions is nothing more than a human concept (which, for me, does not preclude that there absolutely is no higher power/ creator of the universe/ etc.)

Divinely inspired hogwash, sir!

First, the overwhelming majority of Christians have a much more nuanced view of “inspiration” than “God made them write exactly those words.” Second, the passage you cite was brought up on another thread (started by you? it was a fairly new member with arguments about the Bible commanding the slaying of witches and condoning slavery.).

I’ll repeat what I said there – that’s a King James Version rendering of the passage, and unless you’re one of those people who believes the KJV translation to be itself divinely inspired, you need to refer back to the Hebrew.

The people in question were potion-makers who conducted a sideline in poisons for those interested in conducting private vengeance. You know, “eye of newt and toe of frog” stuff – though I gather it tended to be more along the line of infusions from toxic and psychoactive plants.

I’m not altogether fond of the idea that “Thou shalt not allow a poison-monger to live” either, but you’ve got to admit it’s a trifle more defensible than “witch” morally.

<<yawn>>

Is it spring break already?
If you are your own god, you should have no problem stepping out in front of a speeding truck.

Lots of powers in this world are greater than I am.

QtM, fuzzy natural world deist and Unitarian/Iluvatarian

You aren’t a true Iluvatarian, you’ve been flim-flammed by Melkor!

Absolutely not! I could never believe in a god that unilaterally commanded the execution of a potion-seller! But then, I believe the death penalty is wrong. I love that bumper sticker: “Why do we kill people to who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?” Simplicity itself!

Actually, my stance on the death penalty was best expressed by Gandalf, and since Qadgop is around and I don’t have my copy of TTT handy, I’ll leave it to him to quote it.

What I was doing was not defending killing potion-sellers either but refuting the infamous “witch” passage.

BTW, are Elisha, the 42 kids, and the two she-bears due up to bat next? :wink:

Also, I’ll need to see more proof that “witch” actually means “poison-seller.” If the Bible is truly the inspired word of “God,” why did “God” allow such a gross misrepresentation to be promoted through numerous translations over the centuries?! Him being omnipotent and all, couldn’t he have done a better job of communicating? Why would he inspire writing that has caused so much harm to so many people falsely accused of being witches?!

The people in question were potion-makers who conducted a sideline in poisons for those interested in conducting private vengeance. You know, “eye of newt and toe of frog” stuff – though I gather it tended to be more along the line of infusions from toxic and psychoactive plants.

I’m not altogether fond of the idea that “Thou shalt not allow a poison-monger to live” either, but you’ve got to admit it’s a trifle more defensible than “witch” morally.
[/QUOTE]

So, you don’t think it’s problematic that your god commanded the killing of “potion-sellers?”

What a coincidence! Lot’s of powers are greater than me too! But certainly no man-made god-concept has power ovr me.

Ah, so it’s a 820BC-style Death Potion, then? (sorry, could not resist)
This is not a Great Debate, it’s a mediocre exchange of taunts against a cheap caricature of religion.

Go tell it to Jack T. Chick & his followers. They are the ones who believe that translation and the sources they used were themselves divinely edited.

Oh, and BTW, since the KJV translation is a Reformation Christian translation, it has no bearing on what is commanded of Jews. They go straight to the original language.

They weigh less than a duck. Oh! Also they have a carrot on their nose.

Whether it is “a witch” or “a poisoner” depends on which translation and which “edition” you read. Which witch.

So, if you read one “version” then it’s proof of “kill da witches”, if you read another, it’s proof of “kill da poisoners”.

Either way, who cares? It’s just another contradiction, directly opposite to “thou shalt not kill” or “thou shalt not murder” again depending on what “flavor” you read.

The 820s BC Style Death Potion line very nearly redeems this thread, sir! :slight_smile:

If you want a better mind-bender than this nonsense, check out Exodus 7:12. Aaron has thrown down his rod, as the big G suggested, and it turned into a snake. Far from being impressed by this miracle, Pharoah orders his men to cast down their rods and presto, chango… more snakes! G tries to save the day by having A’s snake eat P’s snakes, but you gotta admit, it’s pretty cool for P to be able to pull this off without the one true G on his side.

You know what? This whole thing is not much different from Jesus horses, 6000 year old earth claims, intelligent design, and any other inane nonsense you can think of. Many of them take Paul’s writings and then completely ignore the rest. They do the same with Revelations. People take up a crusade over fictitious or out-of-context words and twist them around to play Mental Masturbation on everyone else. But The Book Says blah blah blah yada yada yada.

The “unbelievers” are just as guilty of it as the Bible thumpers. Give it a rest. Better yet, read the entire Old Testament and the entire New Testament. See if you get something bigger and more profound than just 6000 year old earths, Jesus horses, and witches. Both sides - quit using nits to play bullshit games. It’s annoying.

It is SO! If I Debate you Greatly, I must take a contrary position!

Stick around, IAMMYOWNGOD, you might discover that not all religious folks are the drooling, closed-minded morons you might have imagined them to be

Could you tell me what “relevant text” concerning Exodus 22:18 I’m missing?

One little note about Revelation - check out the very last paragraph. If the prophesy is the divine word of “God” and there is zero chance these words could’ve been altered, why was it necessary to threaten anyone who may attempt to do so with dire consequences?

I certainly don’t think that - I just think most Christians can’t see the truth because they’ve been brainwashed!

Allow me a short excursus, to attempt to make something clear.

Above you see the complete text of a statute passed by the United States Congress and enforced by the pertinent officials named therein.

Obviously you must conclude from this that the United States supports slavery today, right? I mean, it’s the law. Passed by Congress. Text available on the Net.

If you can formulate a reason why my sarcastic comments in the previous paragraph are not true, IAMMYOWNGOD, you have a handle on what the problem with your mode of argument is.