As some of you might remember, right after Sept. 11 there was a rumor that Jews were warned to stay home and that they suffered few casualties from the attacks.
This rumor was pretty much debunked as an urban legend, but I don’t remember seeing or hearing any concrete evidence. I went to Snopes, and their page (last updated on Sept, 21, 2001), was less than convincing from an evidence point of view. There is one link to (I presume) a casualty list, but the link no longer works. Snopes’ suggestion is to look at the names of the casualties, and you will see Jews on the list (are they kidding?). The rest of their ‘evidence’ seems to be based on the “this is just too preposterous to be true” theory. Here is the link to the article:Snopes - Absent Without Leave
The first couple of paragraphs contain the following text:
and,
and finally, toward the end of the piece:
This may all be true, but it scarcelly adds up to hard evidence. Has there been any study compiled of the victims and their religous affiliations? And if so, is there anything you all can point me to? My searches on the web have turned up nothing of note.
It is doubtful that the victims of the WTC attacks were compiled by religious affiliation. However, I can tell you that several Jewish people that I know of (none that I knew personally, however) were killed in the attacks. They certainly weren’t warned. While I didn’t work in the building, I was only two blocks away. I received no warning as well.
In any event, the burden of proof is on those making the ludicrous claims, not on us to prove that the Jews didn’t do it.
I’m not suggesting that “Jews did it”. My question is an honest one, not a political one. I don’t want this to get bogged down in a political debate. However, I don’t think that Snopes did its normal job of debunking this rumor. As an FYI, I also wrote Snopes a note asking basically the same thing, as well as asking what the link pointed to. They never replied.
Mister V,
I put it here because I was hoping to get some information, not to have a great debate. But if it must be moved, so be it.
Max, I’m sorry that I can’t give you a source. But I do remember seeing someone interviewed on one of the cable news networks about the subject. He said that the percentage of Jews killed in the WTC was the same as the percentage of Jews working in the towers.
Further, common sense tells me that had there been a conspiracy involving such vast numbers of people, the secret would have gotten out. The terrorists would have known that and therefore would have been foolish to trust that many people with the secret of the conspiracy.
Thanks. I agree that common sense dictates that it’s untrue. However, I was hoping that there was some difinitive proof out there. Snopes answer left me kind of empty for facts.
However, what it all comes down to is that there is considerable evidence that these deeds were done by the 19 hijackers and thier helpers and none that it was done by anyone else. You may as well suggested that the Venusians did it in alliance with the Neptunians. You have as much evidence there as you do with the Jews.
If your only intent was to criticize the quality of the Snopes article, my only comment would be that it was written shortly after the attacks, when details were probably still scarce and never updated.
Don’t you know? Those pesky Jooz know everything and control everything. Surely they know who all their secret agents (read Jews) in the WTC or any other building are. It’s all part of the functions of ZOG… :rolleyes:
If “the Jews” did it, why did so many of the world’s Moslems cheer when the towers fell? A friend of mine with two sons in a HS that has a large Moslem population said that most of them cheered when the the PA announced (at around 8:30MT) that the north tower had fallen.
Don’t you know? Those weren’t Muslims. They were pesky Jooz in disguise, trying to create the imperssion that Muslims were cheering, so that the ZOG will back Israel’s further agression against the occupied Palestinians… :rolleyes:
Here we go… I ask a question about finding information, and I’m bombarded with “how could the Jews do it?” crap. Answer the question, don’t reply with bullshit like
. Sometimes I feel like I’m asking a question to Pee Wee Herman, and his response is always “I know you are, but what am I?”
I’m not interested in the political debate. Only the hard facts of whether or not any list/study was completed to indicate just what Zoe said… (i.e. the percentage of Jews killed was approximately equal to the percentage of Jews working in the WTC). If there is no study, list or whatever… fine.
Max- what would constitute evidence that their wasn’t a message? How would you go about proving that?
I say, unless you have an extra copy of “The International Jewish Coalition to take over the world, starting with getting a few thousand of our brothers and sisters out of the twin towers on September 11th”, then it’s safe to assume that Jewish people weren’t warned.
Calm down. It was a joke. I was giving what the typical “conspiracy theorist” would answer.
Ultimately there is no answer because you cannot prove that any group didn’t do anything. You can only prove what someone did do. So, ultimately, there is no evidence that the Jews were behind it, but plenty of evidence that the 19 hijackers were.
Fair enough… I guess you could never prove it, although common sense would dictate that it didn’t happen. Circumstantial evidence would be along the lines of Zoe’s information.
I don’t see any big lists of victims broken down by religion. They’re just “victims”, period. I think it will be the job of historians in the future to compile that sort of list. I think everybody’s still a little stunned at the magnitude of the thing.
According to CBS News, two of the victims were Israeli citizens. One of those was Daniel Lewin, who was on the first plane to crash into the WTC, and the other one was Alona Avraham, who was on the second plane.
Here’s the Victims List, as of November 19, 2002, and also the CNN Memorial List. I cordially invite you to browse all 2,948 names and see which ones are Jewish. Guess what? You can’t tell from their names. Somebody named “Brown” could be Jewish; somebody named “Goldstein” could be Gentile.
And I haven’t even looked for Pentagon bombing info. Anyway, if your question is, “Did any Jews did in the 9/11 bombings?” then the answer is an emphatic “yes”.
Another of the better known examples is Abraham Zelmanowitz, an Orthodox Jew who could have escaped and lived, but chose to stay with a non-Jewish quadrapeligic co-worker, Ed Beyea. Both perished when the building collapsed.
I agree with zev that the burden of proof lies with those who make these claims. That being said, I haven’t seen anything that number of casualties by religion, but I have seen information on number of casualties by country. Although the numbers differ, Israel is among the top for number lost. I’m not sure of the date on this, but CNN has a page with information on victims. If you scroll down a little, there is a link to a map with counts by country.