Main Entry: 1sin
Pronunciation: 'sin
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old
High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is
– more at IS
Date: before 12th century
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is
felt to be highly reprehensible <it’s a sin to waste food> c : an often
serious shortcoming : FAULT
2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human
nature in which the self is estranged from God
Main Entry: crime
Pronunciation: 'krIm
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin crimen
accusation, reproach, crime; probably akin to Latin cernere to sift,
determine
Date: 14th century
1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission
of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the
offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation
of law
2 : a grave offense especially against morality
3 : criminal activity <efforts to fight crime>
4 : something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful <it’s a crime to
waste good food>
“He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof gaineth understanding.”
“Correction is grievous to him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.”
“A reproof entereth into a wise man more than a hundred stripes into a fool.”
“Let a bear robbed of her whelps meet a man, rather than a fool in his folly.”
“As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.”
(all Proverbs, passim; I’ve been dying to drop the last one into a conversation for ages).
jmullaney, you’ve got it WRONG. Try and grasp WHY, for goodness’ sake. Jodi has put the matter to you extremely clearly - I just don’t believe that you really can’t understand.
Note be an arrogant and obtuse asshole; start there.
Follow me closely here: yes, adultery was a crime 100 years ago. It isn’t a crime now. It may be someday a crime again. It isn’t a crime now. Is it a sin? Ask God, not man. Sin may be a constant (if you believe in absolute morality) but crime is not; society decides what actions are or are not criminal.
You have the cognitive reasoning ability of a box of hair. YOU CANNOT FORGIVE PEOPLE OF THEIR SINS! EVER! Crime, yes; sin, no.
Newsflash, genius: the Bible makes that distinction repeatedly, specifically in drawing a distinction between violations of Roman law (secular law – crime) and Jewish law (holy law – sin). That’s why Pilate asks “what crime has this man done, that you seek to have Him put to death?” And in Acts Paul similarly relates that he was arrested and turned over to the Romans, who wanted to release him because he had commited no crime. Moreover, the Bible may not specifically distinguish between “sin” and “crime” but neither does it anywhere say they are the same. Your common sense should tell you they are not. Y’know, if you had any.
Yep, we sure are. Just like if you said up was the same as down and I pointed out that in the real world it’s not, you could then say “well, we’ll just have to disagree on that.”
I NEVER said Jesus did not teach the forgiveness of sin. Your bald-faced lying when people can merely scroll up to see what I DID in fact say only makes you look like that much more of an intellectually dishonest jerk.
HA! :rolleyes: You shouldn’t be so obtuse.
Of course I don’t believe God alone is judge of the breaking of the secular law, set up by men for men. The only one who believes such a patently ridiculous and scripturally insupportable thing is you. They had judges all the way back to the Old Testament too, remember? Even have a book named after them? And if you think you are not alone in this interpretation, then point me to ONE SOURCE that supports the premise that men should not just men and crimes should go unpunished. Just ONE.
I have already defined sin; I won’t do it again. You can lead a person to citation, but you can’t make him read.
The difference is that I do not INSIST I am right, and do so repeatedly. Nor do I INSIST on an iterpretation that defies common sense. You do both. You cheerfully cite scripture for the damnedest things, and interpret it in the damnedest way, and you do so in the apparent conviction that you are right. This offends me – not because your interpretation is different than mine but because it is stupid.
Then the good Lord preserve us all from your sympathy.
And from the link provided by lucie:
“Angry with you by virtue of your holiness”?? The arrogance! The breathtaking ARROGANCE! “If I could not turn many from sin the world was flawed”?? PLEASE! Consider for a moment that you cannot turn many from sin not because everyone else is flawed but because you come across as an ARROGANT OBTUSE JERK whom people would far prefer to SMACK rather than take moral lessons from. You are unbelievable. I don’t know anyone else, religious, agnostic, or atheist, who is so full of self-love and self-admiration as to even type such offensive tripe. I suggest you concentrate less on the mote in the eye of others and more on the log in your own.
You were reading something into what I wrote that I did not mean. I have already apologized and clarified in that thread.
Lie. He asked for the opinions of deists as well:
In that thread I said no such thing.
pepperlandgirl – do you believe that God should be our only judge?
schimmel – anyone who says to their brother ‘you fool’ is headed for hellfire. But I forgive you. Go in peace.
When I am a juror, I am representing society for better or worse. I will not judge another, or act as an accomplice in their condemnation. You all may not believe in loving your enemies and I hardly do myself. But we’re all trying to do our best.
Well. I see SOMEone has been reading at Landover. Sheesh.
Besides, if I call you a fool, the best you can do is forgive me in your heart for my insult against you, Joel. Thanks and all that, but if I do not ask and receive God’s forgiveness, I’m still gonna burn, regardless of your forgiveness.
Judge of what?
Crimes, sins, fashion?
Seriously, if I am caught speeding, I don’t think God cares. However, the local authorities sure do.
jmullaney, do you even understand why society has created laws?
Ahem. Let me try to interpret this, given what has been said in other threads on economics.
Um, this means he stopped working and tried to tell people it was wrong to use money. And that he was living as Jesus commanded his disciples…y’know, that whole take no heed for earthly possesions, carry nothing with you, God will provide for you thing. So, after a couple years of sponging off people, they started to get annoyed at his “holiness”. And while I have no proof, I imagine he didn’t bathe as often as he might have in those days. And then he was always telling the people whose work was supporting him that they were wrong to work and make money and buy food and clothing, instead they should depend on God. And all the while living in their homes, eating their food, and watching their cable TV.
Which means that he wants to quit working again and sponge off other people again, yet he’s afraid that they’d get sick of it again and he’d be out on his ass again. And then he’d have no home, no food, and no friends, because he was too “holy” for this world, he was only doing what Jesus commanded, and if those people didn’t listen there was nothing he could do.
Now for the meanness to be over, and the questioning to begin.
J…I really think you have some problems. I have the impression that you are somewhat Catholic. Have you tried to talk about your spiritual confusion with a priest? I mean, that is their job…to help people understand how to live their lives in this world. I really think you could use some religous counseling. Do you personally know ANY religious person who you respect who could help you?
Nice shot, Ogre, but Joel does not accept epistles except when it suits him. His response will undoubtedly be something like “Who are you going to believe, Christ or Peter?”
Beg to differ, but yes, actually it does. In the verse you quoted yourself, which is Revelation 18:5, “…for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes”, there’s the distinction right there between “sins” and “crimes”. In plain English. In the NIV. Her sins AND her crimes. Not just the “sins”. Not just the “crimes”. Both. Or do you think God meant to be intentionally redundant, perhaps for artistic effect?
In the NIV, the word “sin” appears a whopping 473 times in 420 verses, starting with Genesis 4:7, “If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it”, and ending with Revelations 2:14, *“Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality.” *
The word “crime” occurs only 19 times in 18 verses. Obviously it is not as important to God as “sin”. From Genesis 31:36, “Jacob was angry and took Laban to task. ‘What is my crime?’ he asked Laban”, to Acts 28:18, “They examined me and wanted to release me, because I was not guilty of any crime deserving death”, it has to do with offenses against man’s law.
In the Bible, “sin” requires forgiveness from God. “Crime” requires punishment from man, i.e. the civil authorities. “Sin” is disobedience to God; “crime” is disobedience to man’s law.
The difference between a “sin” and a “crime” according to Merriam-Webster:
Again, the same distinction is made. “Sin” is an offense against God; “crime” is an offense against human law.
P.S. I want to address this, pertaining to Jenkinsfan’s linked GQ thread:
Somebody says:
And Jmullaney says, “In that thread I said no such thing.” No, I suppose you didn’t, exactly. But you DID jump in and start witnessing in a thread that was obviously meant to be a “Why are you an atheist?” thread. What on earth were you trying to do? The place for witnessing is in Great Debates; you ought to know that by now.
My answer, andros, will be, “if you believe some of it, you have to believe all of it.”
If you are a true believer, you know that you have no way to decide on your own what is valid and what is not about the Bible. You have to have faith that the entire thing is internally consistent, or the whole thing collapses.
Now, jmullaney, let me just say beforehand, that I am NOT here to argue the difference between sin and crime. I don’t wanna get tangled up in that.
BUT, you said to Jodi:
“But you do not believe God alone is judge.”
THIS, jmullaney, is where you are wrong. In the Bible, the whole “judge not lest you too be judged” passage is about Heaven and Hell. Period. Basically, it means that no one on earth can say whether someone else is going to (repeat after me): Heaven or Hell.
Can we agree on that? Thank you.
NOW. In a court of law, it is not the job of the judge/jury/lawyer to decide whether a person goes to (chorus) Heaven or Hell. Nay, it is the job of the court to decide whether that person goes to jail or walks free. Now, going to jail and walking free are different from Heaven or Hell, because one only effects a person while on Earth, and one effects their soul in the hereafter.
Putting people in jail is NOT the same as condemming someone to Hell, because putting them in jail is an Earthly measure, performed to keep a person from hurting anybody else. The courts are still leaving the final judgement of Heaven or Hell up to the big man himself, and are therefore following the scriptures. Period.
(Bolding done for emphasis, to try to work it into your tiny, deluded, self-righteous mind. Hope I was of service.)
Jeepers creepers. Here I go and get that huge post together and I left out the best part. Teach me to post while somebody’s watching Johnny Carson’s farewell show in the next room…
Mullaney, is English a second language for you? Seriously, if it is, let us know and we can work with you on it. Here I go and post the same dictionary definitions for you that you posted for us, so here it is twice in the thread, and we can all look at it, “yep, that’s what it says, all right”, and you can still stand there and say you don’t see a difference between a “sin” and a “crime”? Golly Moses.
I give up. Jodi, wanna come watch Johnny Carson with me? You wouldn’t BELIEVE how young some of these people look. (Richard Pryor, geez)
