jmullaney -- what's the deal?

The BBQ Pit
1

Are you a total idiot, or do you just play one on the message board? Frankly, I’m not sure which would be worse – troll or moron – but at this point I’m genuinely curious to know which one is the correct answer.

For the curious, the thread that leads me to wonder this is here:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=49438

I am bringing this here because I can no longer respond and keep my temper.

JMULLANEY says:

A SIN is not the same as a CRIME. Read a fucking dictionary if you doubt this. How quaint would it be if you would!

Do you think it’s an act of love to send a child to his room if he cannot behave himself? Why is punishment enacted for rehabilitition, discouragement of reoffense, and/or protection of society inconsistent with “love”?

I asked:

To which JMULLANEY replied:

Jesus never, ever taught this. He never said that temporal crimes should not be punished. He did say that justice should be tempered with mercy, but He never said there should be no justice. If you contend that He did, then you are once again twisting His words beyond all recognition, for reasons that totally elude me. I mean, even the atheists on this board are intellectually honest enough to not engage in this nonsense.

I never said this and resent you stating that I did. Your brand of Christianity is a singularly bad idea, but then it bears no resemblance to the religion I’m familiar with.

I said:

To which JMULLANEY replied:

Bullshit bullshit BULLSHIT!!! To tell you that “blue” is not “green” is not “mincing words.” A crime is not a sin; it never was. If you commited a CRIME in Jesus’s time, you might be subject to stoning or imprisonment, but then as now, only God could decide what happened to you if you committed a SIN. Jesus, what is so fucking hard about this?

I never said this, and you are a liar to say that I did.

Your argument style, of dissecting words to until they are meaningless and of quoting things out of context or twisting their meaning, is IMO by far and away the most obnoxious on the board. I resent that every discussion, no matter the subject, has to have Biblical references dragged into it by you, whether appropriate or not – the above thread being one example, the thread on returning a cameral to Best Buy being another. I ESPECIALLY resent the fact that you, an avowed non-believer who professes to live in a state of sin, would repeatedly attempt to lecture others who frequent this Board on what the Bible means and what the teachings of Jesus mean, when you either do not believe them or do not try to follow them yourself – and then interpret those teachings in a way that is so fucking STUPID as to defy belief. So I want to know: Are you a troll or an idiot? Or both? Please advise.

2

Oh, but Jodi, jmullaney lives in such a pretty world, where the murders and rapists go free and he forgives them all!

Jmullaney, if I email you my address, will you send me your coat, tunic, eye, tooth, and “other” cheek? You make me seethe with frustration at your deliberate stupidity.

3

Jodi- I hope like hell this guy’s a troll, because if not, then I want off this planet!

What an absolute idiot.

4

Jodi – a dictionary is all fine and well but your distinction between a sin against God and a sin against society is meaningless. You have failed to answer any of the questions I have put to you, so I will repeat them.

So, you do not have the power to forgive sins, but you do have the power to punish people for them? Jesus taught that man on earth has the power to forgive sins. For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Do you think it is an act of love to send someone to prison?

That is what Jesus taught.

I don’t see how you can interpret this any other way.

Do you believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, even though Jesus said this was wrong?

Then what is the purpose of forgiveness? So could God forgive you your sins and still send you to hell? That would be OK with you, right?

If Jesus came to proclaim FREEDOM for those in prison, how can it be Christian to work against his purposes?

“‘The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.’ … Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing” – Jesus of Nazareth

5

Well, now wait just a damn minute. If crime is equivalent to sin, and I’m an atheist and, as such, I’ve no god to sin against, wouldn’t it follow that I’m incapable of crime?

Excellent. Anybody need anything from Chase/Manhattan bank? I’m gonna be stoppin’ by there later tonight.

6

::rolling up sleeves:: Well, if the “yell at jmullaney” bit has moved over here so others can debate in GD without it being a Joel v. everybody else slugfest (thanks, Jodi), I’ll dive in.

Well, let’s first take a look at this “don’t judge” scriptural bit.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

It sounds rather to me as if Jesus is saying, “Hey, you’re going to have to face the same degree of judgement that you place upon others. So if you’re a brutal murderer and are judging someone for fibbing, better get your own house in order before you judge that person.” But Jesus does tell them explicitly to cast the mote out of their brother’s eye. (Much though I hate to give any ammunition to those Christians who like to cast down judgments from on high.)

Sometimes, hell yes. If I’m murdering people the best thing you can do for me is keep me from killing others. I have little fear of being judged by the same standards I judge others. Hell, I demand a fair judgment of my actions; I am no child or machine to be released from accountability for my actions. It is a sign of genuine respect to expect someone to be a decent person. Go right ahead and measure me by the same measure I use on others!

Yes, Jesus said all that stuff about turning the other cheek. However, as an atheist I find it nice-sounding but ranging from questionably intelligent to criminally negligent. If someone is a dangerous murderer, you are abdicating your moral responsibility to leave him free to likely harm others and to not keep him secure while you attempt to help him realize why his actions are wrong.

My apologies for the lack of obscenities, pitizens.

7

Jodi, you should see Jmullaney when he gets going on capitalism and how it is immoral to use money, and that the only christian way to live is to give away everything, not work, and depend on the charity of others.

8

Now just a confounded minute. My money is at Chase!

I’m tellin’. Tuba, Uncabeer’s gonna steal the fraction of my retirement money that’s still left! No fair!

Note to jodi. He lies. A lot. Personally, I’d send him to Coventry.

9

Any cloaks and tunics they have lying around would be great. Apparently I’m going into hock here pretty soon.

Ravenous wolves, posing as sheep. Shame, shame.

10

Pick me up a $100,000 brick, would you?

11

Who’s posing? GRRRRrrraraaarrrr…where’s my steak tartare?

12

It impossible to argue with him, much less debate. You’d need a 2x4 of instant wisdom to even get the slightest point across.

13

jmullaney is certainly not an idiot. I hate to see him called such. He is often an obstinate jerk though.

14

Oh, this is the “Rarin to Pardon” Idiot.

quote:
jmullaney:
"Do not resist an evil person. "

That is the absolute stupidest thing I have ever heard. I am sure Hitler loved people that thought like that, it made everything so much easier.

15

Bullshit! The is a difference between an offense against God and an offense against humanity or society. What part of this do you not get? Adultery is generally considered to be a sin (an offense against God); it is no longer widely considered to be a crime (an offense against society). Driving without a license is a crime; it is not a sin. This is not hard, which is why I must suspect you of willful obtuseness. Do not tell me again that the distinction is meaningless without attempting to explain why; you do not appear any smarter by repeating yourself.

A CRIME IS NOT A SIN! I HAVE NO POWER TO PUNISH SIN! And neither do you, your delusions of grandeur to the contrary. I’ve only said this nine times; for fuck’s sake, learn to read.

Do you think it is an act of love to send a child to his room? (Is there an echo in here?)

Bullshit! He never taught this. You repeat yourself like a brainless mynah bird. The lesson Jesus taught with the adulteress at the Temple was that those who themselves deserved to be condemned under the law of God had no right to demand the condemnation of someone else – “Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone.” It deals specifically with the holy Jewish law – the law of Moses – and not the secular law. Moreover, the entire point of presenting the adulteress to Jesus was not to acquire justice or have Him judge her actions – which, if you read the passage, you will find He refused to do – but rather to trap Him by presenting Him with a situation where He would either have to uphold the law and say “stone her” (no mercy, no forgiveness) or say “let her go” and violate the law. He refused to do either. The true irony in your pointing to this passage is that the Pharisees also quoted scripture – the Old Testament – in attempting to trap Jesus in this story. Kind of like the way you use scripture to support points that any reasonable reading of the text would not support.

Do I believe vengeance for its own sake is wrong (which is the point Jesus was making)? Yes. Do I believe justice should be tempered with mercy? Yes. Do I believe justice should be applied with the exercise of thought as to circumstances, and not just rotely according to the letter of the law? Yes. Do I believe this passage stands for the proposition that society should not punish criminals under any circumstances? No. And if you do, then you are alone in that interpretation.

The purpose of human forgiveness is, IMO, to recognize that a person can move beyond wrong actions and not leave those wrong actions – repented and punished – hanging around his or her neck forever. The purpose of of human forgiveness is also, IMO, to allow the person doing the forgiveness to move beyond the anger or resentment or hatred engendered by the doing of the wrong act. Note that I speak of the forgiveness of actions, which is human, and not the forgiveness of sins, which is divine.

God can do anything, and sometimes it is a mystery why He does the things He does. He presumably gave you a brain, but yet He apparently prevents you from using it.

By the way, since you’re such a Biblical literalist, can I assume you have given all you have away to the poor and follow Christ? If not, kindly shut up about what He wants and what His words mean, because if you do not follow His teaching as you understand them – ridiculous as that understanding may be – you have absolutely no right to talk to anyone about what He might want or might have meant.

And, since we’re answering direct questions, please answer mine: Are you a troll or an idiot? Still wondering.

16

Wow, what timing. I was just stopping in with the intention of flaming jmullaney for his post in this thread:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=49537

in which he is being a smug weenie who has thinks you have to be a Christian to have any morals or ethics. That thread was started by jenkinsfan for the stated purpose of finding out about why some of us are non-deists, but jmullaney apparently can’t resist any opportunity to let us all know that he’s the guy with the direct line to god, the keeper of all human morality, and all us endemonized heathens can’t tell right from wrong.

Thanks Jodi. Now I can go home a few minutes earlier since you’ve done all the hard work.

jmullaney, you are one of the best arguments for agnosticism I seen on this board.

17

What can I possibly do to offend my brother that wouldn’t offend God as well, unless my brother is a jerk? And if he is a jerk, should I enforce his arbitrary judgements for him?

People were being thrown in prison for adultery less than a 100 years ago here in Boston. The pendulum could easily swing back the other way. I guess if they made being gay a crime again and I was on Esprix’s jury, I’d have to send him to prison. Sorry, Esprix, but Jodi said!

Let me get what you are saying straight. I can forgive people of their sins if there sins are not crimes, but if they are crimes I can’t? What baloney. The Bible makes no distinction between these two concepts and neither shall I.

“Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! … [H]er sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.”

Well, we are simply going to have to disagree here. How then does Jesus’s teachings seek to free people from prison if people are not to be forgiven for their crimes?

For how many years? We are children of God not children of eachother. If your kid sinned against me, would it be OK if I kidnapped him for a few weeks and locked him in my basement?

Sure… Jesus didn’t teach the forgiveness of sins. What exactly was he doing again? Maybe I missed it.

You shouldn’t be so legalistic.

I think it is clear he let her go. The part where he said “Go,” remember?

So you claim.

But you do not believe God alone is judge.

I’m not alone.

Sad, really. You have missed the whole point.

Aren’t sins just bad acts?

Well, I suppose asking your forgiveness wouldn’t do a lick of good, would it?

I have followed his teachings in the past. But since you have no right to understand his teachings either, who is to say which of us is right? It is entirely possible by returning to my life of sin I’ve magically forgotten everything I was taught. You never know.

I’m a Christian sypathizer. You might not know what sympathy means though, but if you still have that dictionaty handy, I suggest you figure it out. :stuck_out_tongue:

18

I haven’t read the Bible for awhile, but I don’t think it says anything about speeding on the freeway. If you get caught speeding, you will be fined. jmullaney, are you saying that is a sin, not a crime, and therefore, the perp shouldn’t be fined?
I’m not aware of any Church Doctrine that says that I must have my pets liscensed and vaccinated. However, where I live, I will be fined if I fail to do so. Are you saying this example of breaking a law is the same as a sin?
I’ve never been told in Sunday School that I must attend some sort of educational facility or I will be damned to hell. However, in certain parts of the US, if children miss large chunks of school at a time, and it’s not due to some sort of illness, parents will go to jail. Is this tantamount to a damning sin?
I don’t know if God mandated that we cannot have fully automatic weapons in California. However, it is my understanding that we cannot. If I am found with a fully automatic gun, have I sinned in the eyes of God? Mind you, I have USED the gun, I just own it.
Society as created laws, breaking the laws are crimes. God has created laws, breaking those laws are sins. Sometimes they are similiar (such as “don’t kill people”) however, often times they are not. Just because there are examples when sin=crime, doesn’t mean all crimes=sins.

19

That should be “Mind you, I have not USED the gun, I just own it.”

20

This from a man who insists that every dictionary in print is wrong.

Nice try, though, Jodi. I don’t see how you could be any more coherent.