I do consider the Bible basically just a book. Written by some good people and all, sure. However, I think the, for lack of a better term, “Law of Love” is a universal.
Now the Bible makes for a good blueprint. There are plenty of people who do actually take it as authoritative, and since I’m lazy, it makes for a nice document to point to so I don’t have to reinvent the wheel any time the topic comes up.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself – with the correlary that the ends do not justify the means – makes for an OK starting point too. If that is the extent of someone’s moral code I can work with that. In this case, I don’t want to be thrown into prison, therefore, I don’t throw others into prison.
Jodi! Shame on you! How could you let jmullaney draw you in? His MO is pretty much the same whenever he gets into a GD beyond a passing comment. Knowing that the Bible can be used to support a wide variety of positions depending on which verses you pluck out of context, (as well as some truly outrageous stuff that don’t need decontextualization) he picks a position he knows nobody will agree with and pretends to believe it. If anyone offers factual information to the contrary (like “sin <> crime” for instance) he’ll just say “nuh-uh!” and continue arguing along contrafactual lines. If you counter an argument, he’ll just come back a post or two later and restate it, without the necessary refutation to your counter. He very often argues against things you never said, and generally ignores pointed, plain questions, or asks another question in response instead of answering it. In short, he consistently refuses to engage in honest debate. He’s not stupid-- he knows what it is that he does. But he really enjoys yanking everyone’s chains, and he’s probably ecstatic that there is a pit thread devoted to his idiocy.
In short, he is a troll. While he occasionally makes an insightful comment, his SOP is to just be as infuriating as he can be. He is definitely not worth arguing with. I occasionally will jump in and point out gross hypocrisy on his part, but basically I put him on ignore, confident in the fact that Gaudere will be along to take him on. (Sorry Gaud, but I lack your ability to suffer fools.)
Not in so many words. But God would not want you to punish someone were they to repent. I don’t see how that works under the current system. I saw a guy on the tube last night who was up for parole. He’s 37, but back during the Carter administration he killed a cop. He seems genuinely sorry to me. But, they will not let him out – he killed a cop when he was 17 and he can rot in there for the rest of his live for all the parole board cares. I’m not going to turn anyone over to such people.
The current system is completely capricious and that is not my fault. OJ killed two people and got away with it and is an untouchable. John McCain firebombed hundreds of Vietnamese women and children and did a few years in prison and is now Statesman of the Year. Clinton killed several janitors at an aspirin factory overseas and his approval rating went up. This local guy killed one cop was he wasn’t even considered mentally competant enough to vote or buy cigarettes and he’ll rot in prison for the rest of his life.
So, my solution is simple. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. I don’t care how much people want to bitch me out about it. The current system is arbitrary and unfeeling. The Law of Love ain’t perfect either. I prefer one over the other. End of story.
Doesn’t it make you feel better?
The pigs have won tonight.
And they can all sleep soundly.
And everything is alright
– NIN, The Downward Spiral
jmullaney, if you would, please give some careful considerations to your actions. You appear to have a habit of jumping into threads with some form of religious orientation or affiliation and citing bits of scripture as if you Christian. You have outrightly told me, face to face, you are an atheist. Playing the role of Devil’s Advocate can be beneficial–it can also be taken to an extreme. Although you may find some beliefs asserted in the Bible congruent with your own, you do not ascribe to Judaism or Christianity.
Regardless of the fact that attempting to find continuity in the Bible due to the numerous contradictory statements is about as futile as trying to divine the nature of quantum field theory from a Dr. Seuss book, anyone can analyze the text. One may utilize the text as a resource to support one’s argument, but to do so in the fashion you do is preposterous. You are fully aware that one may cite a line here for support; moreover, you are fully aware that there exists a line a bit further down which completely refutes the previous remark.
Are you an idiot? No. Is the behavior you exhibit idiotic? Yes.
I fail to see why you pretend to ascribe to Christianity. Personally, I find it offensive that you pose in such a ridiculous manner. It is admirable to recognize the nature and/or validity of other arguments. Employing such arguments for the sake of wreaking havoc is not only distastelful but a waste of your time and other’s who wish to fight ignorance in the vein of thought with which this MB was established. Please reconsider you actions.
I know you are an intelligent human being, but using that intelligence in a derisive manner which may even contradict you own beliefs is reprehensible. Perhaps this derisive nature is one of your attributes. Perhaps you ought to change. Perhaps you owe some individuals and apology.
Well, by his lights he is. He does believe in God and Christ, he just doesn’t follow Him/Them, which is what he considers “atheism”–“without God”. I let him call himself an atheist if he likes without saying anything, although he’s defining it a different way from 99.9% of the rest of the world. I only object when he tells me “atheists don’t love their fellow man” or that I am not really an atheist, since I think I should make it clear the difference between his personal interpretation of the word “atheist” and the usual sense if he is going to make any sweeping claims about atheism, or, frankly, any persons besides himself. But I don’t think he is an atheist in the customary sense, and he’s not a nonbeliever playing “Devil’s advocate”. (I don’t mind, either; I don’t want him on “my” side! )
He’s also tried to make us believe that he was a monk at one point. What are you going to believe, Nen? I vote nothing. Does believing nothing the man says sound good? I’m liking the idea . . .
Some days. I’ve become more of a deist as time has gone on.
But I know Christ was right. There is a big difference between knowing what is right and doing what is right, of course.
I have never done this, at least not on purpose – perhaps a few times in error and when I have made an error I have admitted to it. Please cite an example.
Wreaking havoc? I don’t recall doing that either.
What should I do? Should I lie? I don’t see who that would benefit. Then I’d by a hypocrite. I’d know I was lying, and only doing so to cover my own ass. A remedy for me being evil shouldn’t be being more evil. If I have unintentionally ridiculed anyone, I am sorry. I can try to be less derisive, but again, an example might help.
Well, ask him how he defines “atheist.” (Or, for that matter, how he defines “Christian” to exclude pretty much everyone I have ever known.) That’s the definition I got from him before, and I just let it drop because lots of people have their own personal definitions for words. However, such specialized definitions can be exceedingly confusing to anyone who isn’t aware of them.
Now I was a little spiritually confused back in the day. You’ve definitely helped set me straight since then. I was somewhat confused 6 or so months ago, but now know I’m more of a deist or theist than anything else. I do sometimes entertain that thought that there is no God.
Again, I did say that, sometime in June if I recall. If I never apologized then (I may have left one thread because FriendOfGod was there making posts half a page long) and I’m not sure I didn’t, let me reiterate my apology again. I’m sorry. I have learned a great deal over the past six months. I believe it is entirely possible for atheists to keep the law of love. I don’t think a blanket statement can be made about any group of people like that. And you are really an atheist.
I’m honestly not sure how to define Christian. It would seem to me a Christian is someone – anyone – who keeps Jesus’s commandments. Or even honestly tries. I know that definition offend’s many people but it is the one which makes sense to me, and I’m open to suggestions of a broader definition. Thus, I’m not a Christian, only a theist.
All right, jmullaney, just to satisfy my own curiosity: So you believe God exists. (I don’t think wondering whether there is a God really qualifies you for atheism; I bet even the most devout theist occasionally wonders if God exists, s/he just always decides in the affirmative. Just becuase I occasionally wonder if I exist does not make me a nihilist, even at the instant that I am wondering.) Do you believe Jesus was God, or just a man who had the right idea?
Hm, I guess you said you “entertain the thought that there is no God”, not that you “wonder if there is a God”. Since I don’t know what “entertain[ing] the thought that there is no God” entails, I have no idea whether you would be an atheist or a theist or an agnostic when you do it.
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