Joe Lieberman Can Kiss My Godless Backside

The BBQ Pit
1

Just what we need, another religious fanatic in politics! I read in the Times this morning a speech Lieberman just gave in Michigan: “As a people we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to God and God’s purpose . . . John Adams wrote that our constitution was made ONLY [my emphasis] for a moral and religious people . . . George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion.” He also added that the Constitution “guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.”

Well, bite me. And bite me again. Does anyone know the best address for me to get in touch with this guy so I can tell him he has just lost a life-long Democrat? Should I write to the Democratic National HQ, or to his Senate office in CT? I mean, why the hell should I support someone who calls me immoral and bad for the country, and says the Constitution is not for ME?

Bastard. Can I marry any of you Brits or Aussies so I can leave this beknighted country?

2

OK, I found his Senate address and just sent him the following letter. I’m sure he’ll never even see it, but at least it makes ME feel better:

Dear Senator,

I was disappointed and disturbed by the text of your Michigan speech, as reported in the New York Times this morning. As a lifelong Democrat, a good loyal American and an atheist, I don’t know how I can, in good conscience, support you for Vice President.

You are quoted as saying, “As a people we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to God and God’s purpose . . . John Adams wrote that our constitution was made ONLY [my emphasis] for a moral and religious people . . . George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion.” You also added that the Constitution “guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.”

Why should I vote for someone who publicly states that I am immoral, bad for this country and have no constitutional rights, simply because I don’t believe in religion? I pay my taxes, do volunteer work, am kind to my family and friends, I pick up earthworms from the sidewalk after a storm and put ’em back on the grass. I Remember Pearl Harbor and I Look for the Union Label!

Will you please explain why I am not a good American?

3

Put my name on there too Eve! I totally agree.

4

Eve, I completely agree with you.

I guess I count as part of the “Jewish vote” that they think that they are going to get with Lieberman on the ticket. And I admit, when I heard that Gore had chosen a Jewish running mate, I thought to myself “wouldn’t it be nice to have a Jew in the White House?” But as soon as I learned a little more about him, any urge that I had to vote for him vanished. Last thing we need is another politician cramming religion down our throats–even if it is a religion that I am ostensibly a part of.

And no, I am not an atheist.

Would you mind posting his Senate address?

5

If the Mods want to edit this out, feel free—I don’t know what the rules are about posting public addresses, so I won’t be offended if this is cut. Write to him at either of these addresses:

Senate Hart Office Building Washington, D.C. 20510

One State Street, Suite 1420 Hartford, CT 06103

6

I caught a couple of interviews with this guy and he does seem to imbue a lot of High Morality into his spiel. I actually quite liked the mild shot across the bows he gave the Hollywood death and gory film makers a couple of weeks ago but this association with 200 year old morality does seem a little uncomfortable.

I wonder if the context is quite accurately reported – where does the NYT stand on the Demo’s this time around ?

Also, I’m out of touch but, as a long shot, I guess the Demo’s are thinking Gore isn’t going to pull in any of the righteous vote so someone’s got to go for it. Isn’t it just electioneering…

Don’t think you can escape over here, Eve. Your reputation is shot asunder after the incident with the dusty wobbly desk and the librarian at Westminster Abbey. The police are saying they don’t have fingerprints but they’d like to take a look at your knees.

7

Please someone post a link to a transcript of the speech or news coverage of same? I would like to see everything in context.

If I see exactly what I think I will see based upon the quotes in the OP, I will write letters until the cows come home.

Yer pal,
Satan

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8

OK, Eve, I understand your point and applaud both your efforts and indignation.

But here’s my question. You quote Lieberman as saying:
**

There are three statements there. The second two are not Leiberman’s, they are John Adams’ and George Washington’s, respectively. So, obviously, you’re not taking issue with them, right?

So, let’s take a look at his first stamement. If I understand you, you take offense at Lieberman’s suggestion that we, “as a people,” renew our dedication to God and his purpose.

You do know where you live, right? I mean, I feel odd (as a Jew) pointing this out, but this is a de facto Christian country. Seperation of Church and State exists as policy because it needs to; ours is a deeply religious nation, both in its politics and it constituents.

You accuse Leiberman of calling you, “immoral” and, “bad for this country.” You say he denies your constitutional rights, simply because you don’t believe in religion.

Where does he say these things?

I admit that religion is a touchy point in politics… I am not sure how I feel about a candidate selected because of his religion (and not despite it). Nevertheless, I don’t see how the vitriol of your OP can be defended.

9

Do you really think Dubba is going to be any better? His idea of freedom of religion is chosing what type of Baptist you wanna be. Both these guys suck, what a choice. I think I’m gonna write in a vote for Mickey Mouse.

10

“The police are saying they don’t have fingerprints but they’d like to take a look at your knees.”

—Oh, if I had a dime for every man who’s said THAT . . .

Satan—I wish I had a link, but I clipped this out of today’s NYT. It was a weekend speech, though, so I’ll bet most of the online newswires would have covered it.

sdimbert—I found his quoting of outdated 200-year-old morality offensive. Yeah, I’ll bet I WOULD argue a few points with Washington and Adams today!

I’ll pull an old trick here to show how horrifying I found his speech. Pretend you’re black and you heard Lieberman say, “As a people we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to white people and the Aryan purpose . . . John Adams wrote that our constitution was made ONLY for white anglo-saxon Protestants . . . George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without untainted white blood.” And that the Constitution “guarantees freedom of racial discrimination, not freedom from racial discrimination.”

OK, I admit that’s not QUITE the same thing, but as an atheist, it’s just as scary.

11

Here is one story on it for Satan and others. Also, thank you Eve. I was going to post almost exactly the same subject, but you beat me to it. Do we really want a religous freak like this in a position of power? One who said he doesn’t want atheists running the country.

Joe’s Godly Agenda This is the actual title, I swear it.
Just goes to show, you can’t trust either canidate.

12

quote:

Originally posted by Eve
Can I marry any of you Brits or Aussies so I can leave this beknighted country?

Does this rule out Canadians? If not,

<bad Morrocian accent>

“Come with me to the Casbah.”

</bad Morrocian Accent>

In this case, the Casbah is a small town in Atlantic Canada. It’s kinda boring, but we can have whatever religiuos views we want (including none at all).

13

But he DID. Remember the only people who were able to vote when this country was formed were free, white 21 year old males. Wonder if Joe wants to return to THAT idea of the founding fathers, as well.

14

Damn. I was afraid of this.

I think Ralph Nader may be getting my vote after all.

15

Good. That’s the way our government works.

**

Eve, you are right. The preceeding statement, while fictional, is scary. And it is, definitely not the same thing at all.

What you are forgetting is that between Adams and us is over 200 years of American political history.

You can kick and scream and shout from your soap box all you want, but the fact of the matter is that America Loves God. Look at our currency, our foreign and domestic policy, etc etc etc. Ours is a religious country.

Of course, it must be said that ours is a religious country that practices freedom of religion. This means that Joe and I are just as free to practice as you are not to.

So, you object to his language? Fine. Write him a letter, as you have. Form a lobby. Hell, don’t vote for him if you want.

I just wanted to alert you to the fact that, as an univolved outsider, I didn’t understand exactly what remarks Joe made that upset you. I still don’t. I don’t see where he called you (as an atheist) names or denied you a thing.

16

Eve,

What of this, taken from Lieberman’s speech:

**

I personally find some of his rhetoric distasteful, but what of the message? Faith is not inconsistent with freedom from faith.

17

I typically don’t post in the pit but I’ve got to add my $.02.

As a Christian, I don’t think I’d want a person who runs on the platform of “being a Christian” in the White House. Why? Because I am a firm believer that you cannot mandate morality (I mean belief systems, etc, not the general laws. Let’s not get too technical). If you are a Christian, then live like one, vote for what you belive is good and let your life speak for itself. Once you make “being a Christian” part of your campaign, it becomes simply that - a platform.

18

sdimbert—Yeah, I read that other part of his speech as well. I found it a little hard to swallow after the past few weeks of hearing him cram the Old Testament down my throat.

You really can’t understand how an atheist would find his remarks offensive and frightening? I don’t know what else I can do to explain it for you. Anyone else wanna jump in?

And yes, I agree that—unfortunately—this is a bible-bangin’ country, and neither I nor anyeone else is going to change that. And yes, I agree that the Republicans are even worse. But that doesn’t make me feel any better about the Democrats suddenly going all holier-than thou.

It’s all very depressing—I’m certainly not going to vote for Bush, or the Mini-Me candidates (Nader, Buchanan). So what do I do? I wish they had an “I don’t want ANY of 'em!” space on the ballot.

19

Sdimbert, what if a Christian Veep canidate had said: "As a people we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to Christ and Christ’s purpose . . . John Adams wrote that our constitution was made ONLY [my emphasis] for a Christian people . . . George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without Christianity.” Wouldn’t a non-Christian feel that the prospective Veep had deliberately excluded non-Christians from the consititution and any claim to morality?

I’m rather pissed with Lieberman too. I wanted to like him, but it looks like he’s going for the conservative Christain vote at the expense of those of us who do not worship any deity, and don’t like being told I can’t maintain morality without religion.

20

sdimbert, pay attention to the following.

Lieberman stated, “We know that the Constitution wisely separates church from state, but remember: the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.”

Does that statement not imply that atheism will not be tolerated?

Lieberman stated, “As a people, we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to God and God’s purposes.”

Does that statement not imply that religious overtone will heavily color political positions should Lieberman be elected?

Lieberman stated, “John Adams, second president of the United States, wrote that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people,”

Does that statement not exclude atheists from United States citizenship?

Lieberman stated,“George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition ‘that morality can be maintained without religion.’”

Does that statement not imply that atheists are immoral?

Lieberman stated, “I want to talk to you this morning about another barrier that may fall, as well, as a result of my nomination,” which I assume was in conjunction with this statement, “I hope it will enable people, all people who are moved, to feel more free to talk about their faith and about their religion. And I hope that it will reinforce the belief that I feel as strongly as anything else, that there must be a place for faith in America’s public life.”

Does that statement not imply that religious overtones will color public life as a result of executive order (barring those already conceded by the first amendment)?

Lieberman stated, “Let us reach out together to those who may neither believe nor observe and reassure them that we share with them the core values of America, that our faith is not inconsistent with their freedom, and that our mission is not one of intolerance but one of love,”

Does that statement not seem inconsistent with the others? Perhaps it isn’t. Perhaps we can continue to live the way we wish provided we subject ourselves to an inundation of religious propaganda. Perhaps atheists, agnostics, buddhists, et cetera are okay provided our beliefs aren’t represented in the government and Lieberman’s are. If he considers a belief in god to be a core value of America which does not differ from my belief, he’s got another thing coming.

Does this post clarify how one might take offense at Lieberman’s statements?