Don’t say he doesn’t have a license - let’s just call him undocumented.
(I stole that. It was too good not to steal.)
Anyway, his employer is a licensed plumber, right? Seems to be from what I have read. So that would put him in the clear regarding his papers. That’s how millions of people get started in the trades - working for tradespeople and learning on the job.
My brother is a journeyman millwright - when he started his training he was a laborer and had no papers at all - not even ones formally placing him into a training program or apprenticeship. That didn’t stop him from turning wrenches at a steel mill.
Now, it’s possible they do no work in their hometown, and they are licensed where they do work.
And, in fact this MSNBC article seems to indicate that the boss has a license in Toledo, but also notes that all his employees should have Journeyman or Apprentice Licenses, if they’re not fully qualified plumbers yet:
So Obama wants to take some of the hypothetical money of a hypothetical business in the hypothetical future. McCain’s bringing this guy up at the debate may cost him real sanctions for his illegal actions now. Thanks, McCain!
Joe the Plumber made Obama looked bad. He made Obama screw up totally and look like a complete dummy, so much so that he’ll probably lose the election now. Joe the Plumber is a rock solid, right thinking American who’s tax lien is smaller than Charlie Rangel’s.Why, Joe the Plumber is much more American than any of those New York elitists, let me tell you. That’s the only reason why the loony left-wing biased socialistic Obama loving media is asking all of these intrusive questions of Joe the Plumber - the kind of questions which are pointedly not being asked of Bill Ayer.
Why, we don’t even know who Obama really is. Do we?
Rush Limbaugh told me this on the radio, so it must be the god’s honest truth.
First of all, a quick search here shows that Al Newell, Joe the Plumber’s employer, has an active license in Lucas County. So that one’s out of the way.
Says here you have to work in the field in question - and do so continuously. I see no requirement that you be an apprentice to do so. And you have to work for five years before becoming a licensed plumber. How you can you work without a license? Why, by working for a plumber that has one, of course.
What do you think you just debunked? Who said he was doing anything illegal. The fact remains that “Joe” is not a licensed plumber. That’s also really the least relevant point that can be made about him. The more significant points are that he’s a registered Republican and McCain supporter and convicted tax evader who is in no position to buy his boss’s business as he claimed, who would not pay more taxes even if he could buy it, and who will get a tax cut under Obama. Everything about this Joe the Plumber" mythology is a lie. The guy is a right wing nutjob who thinks that any graduated tax system is “socialism,” who doesn’t pay his taxes anyway, who misrepresented himself as a prospective small business owner, and who is too stupid to realize he’d be better off under Obama’s tax plan than McCain’s
Oh, and he also made a racist crack comparing Obama to Sammy Davis Jr. McCain should cut himself lose from this dumbass quickly before he embarrasses his campaign even more.
Well, to be fair, I did, based on what I read in that article re: Journeyman’s and Apprentice licenses, and what I know of licensure laws here in Illinois. (For Acupuncture and Massage Therapy, not plumbing. They both briefly accepted apprenticeship as a route to licensure, but I believe both have now switched to requiring approved schooling instead.)
His not paying his taxes is still illegal, though, isn’t it?
Dio, think that through. Why would YOU (or for that matter, I) want McCain to distance himself from the plumber? Joe helps our side. You should be pulling for McCain to entice the plumber to campaign rallies by promising him sex with Palin.
Note the “unlicensed” part. Doesn’t this offend actual licensed plumbers and contractors? And, by extension, any practitioner who is required to fulfill educational and experience requirements, and pass a state licensing exam?
McCain’s dragging JTP out on the campaign trail with him. This is his big game changer – an ignorant lout who wants tax policy to favor the rich on the extremely unlikely chance he’ll be rich one day?
Mind you, I don’t think JTP is a bad person. I think he’s ignorant, based on his comments (esp. the one on social security), but he is an average Joe, so to speak. I just don’t see quite how it’s a game changer to have somebody who sorta agrees with you stumping with you. Is it so extraordinary to still find Republican-leaning voters in Ohio? Why does this guy get handed a megaphone? Why does he “symbolize” the middle class more than a Democratic-leaning voter in Ohio with the same income?
Could someone please explain why Joe the Plumber’s background makes one whit of difference? It’s not like he was a Republican plant - Obama walked into HIS neighborhood. Attacking the questioner because the answer from Obama was a little too illuminating is despicable. This guy asks a question of a politician, and for that he’s getting dragged through the muck?
Oh, and Democrats - way to rally support among those blue-collar workers you’re trying to attract. I’m sure demonizing this guy will make all the rest of the plumbers and laborers and electricians want to just come running to vote for you.
Attacking Joe the Plumber may be the stupidest thing I’ve seen Democrats do yet. I hope you realize that every time “Joe the Plumber” is mentioned, it reminds everyone of just why he’s in the news - because he sparked a controversy over whether or not Barack Obama is a redistributionist. You lose support every time that guy’s name is mentioned. And by attacking him, you look mean and petty - and worried.
The question could have been asked by a talking rabbit, and it wouldn’t have mattered. Or Obama could have been answering an anonymous question in a Town Hall. The person asking the question has nothing to do with the reaction to Obama’s answer. Joe isn’t running for office - his question doesn’t take on less meaning or have less significance if his personal credibility is destroyed, because his credibility is irrelevant.
I’ve been telling everyone that Obama has this election sewn up. Now I’m not so sure. Obama stepped in it big time, and rather than helping him help everyone to forget about it, you all are busy fanning the flames and making sure this encounter, and the video of the question and answer, stays in the news cycle for days. Good work.
The whole point is that Joe’s question got answered by Obama. And the tax plan is working as intended. Joe and the vast majority of small business owners will not see a cent of increase. Why isn’t that a good message? It runs counter to the outright lies of the McCain camp.
And the Democrats, much less Obama aren’t railing on Joe. It’s the media doing that. And it’s all McCain’s fault.
Obama just answered Joe’s question. He didn’t push Joe into the 15 minutes of fame he’s now “enjoying”–McCain did that, after various right wing bloggers and radio talk shows started talking about him. Nor did Obama dig into Joe’s life – the media did that. Whatever they want you to believe, the media doesn’t work for the Democratic party. They just dig up information on public figures, and that’s what Joe is now, whether he likes it or not (he can rest assured, thought, that it’ll be over soon.)
I also don’t think that many people give that much of a shit if he owes a few back taxes and practices plumbing without a license. If that’s character assassination, they’re doing it wrong.
I don’t know why McCain would want to bring JTP up anymore. Obama explained that Joe wouldn’t be fined on Health Care in the debate and it doesn’t look like JTP’s going to be able buy the business anyway. It was a talking point that really blew up in McCain’s face.
Because McCain’s a stupid, stupid shithead intent on running the world’s worst political campaign, with wall-to-wall character assassinations, mean-spirited attack ads, sanctimony, distractions, and other irrelevant shit. Every day, he gets his ass handed to him giftwrapped, sometimes delivering it himself, as in the JTP disaster, and then he whines about how awful the media and his anti-American opponent is treating him.
Because if he’s going to be an emblem, he needs to be an emblem for the right reasons. If he really is Joe Sixpack plumber guy, his taxes aren’t going up under Obama’s plan. Even if he is in a position to buy his plumbing business, his taxes STILL aren’t likely to go up under Obama’s plan unless it’s the best damn plumbing outfit east of the Mississippi. Too many people still don’t understand that.
It’s important not to let this guy speak for all of them. The blue-collar laborers need to understand that Obama’s tax plan benefits them, and this guy’s objection to it is based on 1.) a hypothetical and unlikely scenario in which he buys a business that generates a quarter mil a year, and 2.) political stances that are not in his personal best interest.
Have we really seen “the Democrats”–that is, the actual candidates and their surrogates–attack this guy? I’ve seen a lot of poking from the traditional media, and some ragging in the blogosphere, but out there where most voters get their info I don’t think he’s being actively demonized. (I could be wrong.)
But I think you’re overestimating the American voter. We like to sit around here on the Dope and argue about whether redistribution of wealth is wrong, or if it’s a legitimate function of government to prevent excessive concentration of wealth. But most people just want to know if their taxes are going up or down.
To the extent that “redistribution of wealth” is a bugaboo, it’s because the middle class has been afraid that the government would take their money and give it to poor people. That’s not what people are worried about in this election. Most of the blue-collar folks I know are watching gas prices go up, their 401(k)s go to shit, and their wages stand still, but this time they’re not blaming the welfare queens in their Cadillacs. They’re blaming the people in suits who seem to have screwed everything up but who don’t seem to be paying for it. Most middle-class folks wouldn’t mind to have a little wealth redistributed their way.
I can’t find it now, but there was a great blog post listing every “biggest mistake” the Obama campaign has made so far, according to one pundit or another. It was an impressive list. And yet, here he is, still riding high.