Remember Robert Novak’s outing Joseph Wilson’s wife as a CIA agent? Came just a week after Wilson’s Op-Ed piece in the NYT debunking the Niger/Uranium story?
DN! played a speech Wilson gave where Wilson fingered Karl Rove as the man who outed his wife:
After quoting that excerpt from his speech, DN! asked Wilson about his fingering of Rove. Wilson responded:
DN! asked Wilson if this sent a message to other administration dissenters. Wilson responded:
Is Wilson just a lefty crackpot? Or are there issues for debate here?[ul][li]What about Wilson naming Rove as Novak’s source? Is Wilson just making it up, or is there something to the allegation?What about Wilson’s notion that the administration tried to silence others by outing his wife? Novak names administration officials as his source. Is there another explanation for administration officials outing a CIA agent a week after Wilson’s NYT piece?[/ul]Wilson’s logic for fingering Rove is tenuous in the passage quoted. Wilson seems to say that if the Press Office and Scott McLellan honestly denied it - then it’s most likely Rove. But, would Rove even have known that Wilson’s wife was CIA? I hope not.[/li]
Novak appears to name “two senior administration officials” as his source. If we assume Novak isn’t lying, what are possible explanations for two senior administration sources discussing anything about Wilson’s wife’s CIA affiliation? If administration sources are talking to Novak about why Wilson was sent on the Niger mission, why is there any need to mention his wife? What’s the most charitable interpretation? That Novak just chucked in that phrase about administration officials - even though it had nothing to do with the sentence or paragraph?
Disclaimers:[ul][]My post reads as if it’s a fact that Wilson’s wife is a CIA agent. Wilson never confirms this, and when speaking about Novak’s column, he’s careful to say something like “if what Novak alleges is true …”[]DN! is definitely a lefty program. Please note that I’ve quoted only from Joe Wilson, speaking on DN!, not from any DN! anchors.[]I transcribed the segments I quoted. If you can find a transcript, I’ll be miffed I wasted the effort.[]As a GD newbie, I feel compelled to cite the onlyother two SDMB hits for “novak wilson” in 6 months.[/ul]
Well, as an interested Australian on the outside looking in, it seems like more classic Machiavellian American political assassination behaviour I should think.
Not that I am entitled to an informed opinion on this, but one of the disadvantages of having your Executive Office kept as an independant third party to both your Congress and your Senate is that (it seems to me) a certain lack of accountability manifests itself on those occasions when the nasty stuff starts to fly.
But in the interests of fairness, there are many, many advantages too.
It’s worth noting that we don’t hear much about Karl Rove down here. The only time I ever hear his name is on the SDMB to be honest. My general perception is that he seems to be quite the nasty fuck, who also happens to be a most inappropriately influential string puller.
Possibly. Does Novak say the current White House? Novak claims Wilson was involved in Iraqi affairs at least since 1991, and Wilson cited some kind of evidence that in 1988 Iraq was trying to create commercial contacts with Niger, presumably to obtain uranium. And Wilson retired in 1998, under Clinton.
I am also not seeing anything by way of evidence that Rove was involved - just an accusation by Wilson. Wilson doesn’t even say why he thinks Rove had something to do with it.
I see a lot of smoke. Is there any fire, or is it mirrors?
I don’t see anything in the quote that provides a “smoking gun” to Rove but there’s little doubt that he’s the one responsible. He has a long history of doing exactly this sort of thing. Unfortunately, he also has a long history of not leaving any evidence around when what he does is illegal.
To be sure, not everyone agrees with that sessment.
Like me.
However, he is bombastic and in-your-face about his views, has been a priceless aid to Bush, and so lefties in America utterly despise him in every way, and curse the day he was born. And the SMDB is more than slightly geared to a crowd that does not support 'Publicans.
In this piece by MSNBC’s Tim Noah (who I consider a partisan hack like Novak, just at the other end of the spectrum), When McLellan was asked “But did Karl Rove do it?” he responded “As I said, it’s totally ridiculous.” MSNBC’s Noah is being willfully dense when he says that this isn’t a denial- Is McLellan going to say that it was ridiculous but true? In addition:
So if you read between the lines of Noah’s vitriol, it appears that not only has McLellan denied it, but Wilson has somewhat backed off the accusation.
I’m assuming Wilson’s wife really was CIA- Wilson’s behavior and this whole brouhaha doesn’t make sense otherwise.
If I said, “There’s no ‘smoking gun’ evidence to indicate that Evil Captor gives heroin to ten-year-old girls in exchange for sexual favors, but there’s little doubt that it happens,” then I would rightly be attacked for the baseless and outrageous false accusation. Yet somehow you find it acceptable to offer similarly baseless accusations.
I beg of you all to cure my ignorance on one point:
Is there any way to compell Novak to “out” his source? There are exceptions to privilege for lawyers and psychologists (AFAIK), so are there any for journalists? Obviously, if the accusation is true, there are numerous lives that have been placed in great danger, including the wife and all of her “contacts”. Anyone know the legal tools at the public’s disposal to ferret out the truth?
Yeah, he’s been doing all this bad stuff, and what’s worse is he’s hiding it. We know that because there’s no evidence. Now where have I heard that before?
Come now, Rick, if I had about 2,000 convictions for selling heroin to little girls and somebody in my neighborhood was accused of selling heroin to little girls, who wouldn’t suspect me?
Well, apparently not Republican partisans. They need tons of proof before they can see the obvious, at least, where Repubs are concerned. Fortunately, it’s availalble. Here’s a few links about Rove’s dirty, filthy, disgusting, vile, nauseating past:
Thanks for the further accusations, Evil Captor. Did you have any proof?
I am sorry to say that I can’t consider the World Socialist League maunderings to be proof.
Specifically, you have accused Rove of being the one who outed Mrs. Wilson. Did you have any proof of that, or are you hoping the mud will stick without any?
Wilson’s credibilty is damaged by Mojo’s cite. In the audio track of the speech, Wilson seemed very sure of himself. He “measured his words” when he named Rove. Later, he denies the allegation altogether. It’s tough not to hold that against him when evaluating his other statements.
No one has disputed that “two senior administration sources” tipped Novak that Wilson’s wife was CIA. There are two questions on this topic that I’m still interested in:
[ul][]Is it possible Rove could have known that Wilson’s wife was CIA? Why would he? It seems absurd to me that Rove would know anything about anyone’s being in the CIA. But then, what administration source would know? Can you name a position a potential source could have held where he or she would have that knowledge?[] Why would any administration source ever out any CIA agent? What’s the most charitable interpretation?[/ul]Thanks Apos, I was hoping someone would notice :).
Are your cabinets accountable? My understanding is that in the British system, the cabinet does whatever they want, and parliment is expected to ratify whatever they come up with. If they don’t like it, their only recourse is a vote of no confidence to install a new PM (who then installs another cabinet, without any accountability to the parliment). Is Australia different?
Rove has committed many, many, many acts of dirty tricksterism.
Many of the acts of dirty tricksterism have involved secretly passing information about people to the press.
Rove works for the White House as resident dirty trickster.
The case in question involved secretly passing information about a person to the press by someone who works in the White House.
By far the likeliest candidate is