I’m not saying he’s a nice guy. This is one horrendous person.
I’m saying that he may not have attempted to murder someone intentionally.
Yes. Still not necessarily a killer.
The woman really went flying. If he just bumped her, or even gave her a distracted shove, that wouldn’t have happened. He pushed her HARD.
This is what my people call a shmuck.
Perhaps the responses you’ve gotten indicate that it wasn’t as clear. Anyway, the quote I was respjnding to seemed to muddy your point, which is why I asked.
No, he may not have attempted to murder her. But his attempted manslaughter is right there on the video for all to see.
Pushing someone into oncoming traffic is certainly attempting to kill someone, even if didn’t leave the house specifically looking for someone to kill.
Yes. If he was even aware of said oncoming traffic, or where in the sidewalk the woman landed. which I suspect he wasn’t. At least I think he wouldn’t have used the same route on his way back if he had been.
You acknowledge that it seems he pushed the woman deliberately in order to get her out of his way, but you believe it was not done in order to push her under the bus. Other than a few jokes, I don’t think anyone is arguing that he attempted to kill her. That a strawman.
Nonsense. There’s traffic the whole time as the guy’s jogging along. Claiming that the guy didn’t know about the traffic that is right next to him doesn’t pass the smell test.
No, I am arguing that the guy did attempt to kill her. It may not have been murder. It may have been a spur of the moment thing. But he deliberately shoved a woman into oncoming traffic. That’s attempted manslaughter, if not attempted murder.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be attempted murder. I think when he came back for a second look, he was trying to check his results.
Am I?
There’s a difference between knowing there’s traffic and knowing there’s a bus right behind you.
Because pushing someone into automobile traffic is not deadly?
… or any car behind you. Or where the woman is even positioned.
Sorry- not sure what this means
it means he pushed somebody and kept running. He may not have been aware that:
a) The woman’s head fell on the road, nor
b) There was any car right there at the moment.
Still horrible, just not attempted murder.
No you can’t. A “push,” by definition, is a deliberate act:
“(noun) an act of exerting force on someone or something in order to move them away from oneself.”
So unless you are claiming he didn’t have command of his voluntary muscles, which would really be something consider he’s, you know, jogging, you can’t plausibly argue that he accidentally PUSHED her. Even if he “shouldered” her accidentally into oncoming traffic, which is what I imagine he’ll ultimately claim once he’s found, he showed a calloused disregard for her safety because he didn’t stop.
That is true, and that is precisely why we have degrees of crime. My guess is that he’ll either be charged with a reckless endangerment-type charge, OR he’ll be charged with attempted homicide, and after he learns some expensive and life-changing lessons (via lawyer’s fees and social media), he’ll plead down to reckless endangerment. Had she actually been hit and killed by the bus, he probably would not have gotten off so easily because people tend to be more merciful when there’s no corpse. But then again, without her testimony that he actually pushed her, he may have gotten off because some people just refuse to believe what their own eyes tell them.
Has there been a flood of people calling this murder? Callous disregard for life, reckless endangerment, forms of manslaughter etc, sure. Maybe I missed all the posts saying it was flat out murder, that this is such a critical correction to be focusing on.
I was responding to Merneith, who said:
He’s calling for flat out murder in there, wouldn’t you say?
I’m going to answer “no” to your question (bolding mine).
Not speaking for Merneith, but I take that comment as if you shove someone into oncoming traffic, who have to know their death is quite the possibility.
And FWIW, that post came after you started this discussion on the intentionality of this guy’s act. Were there a bunch of other posts preceding yours claiming it was definitely intentional murder?
Fair enough. I was trying to say that he (probably) didn’t deliberately tried to kill somebody.
Can you go into all of those quotes and bold the part where they (and I) are arguing that that this person is attempting to kill the person? You’ve spend some time digging up a list including my comment
How exactly does that imply a position that he was attempting to murder someone? Can you bold that portion of my comment?
How is that not the same as deliberately pushing someone?