Here’s a link to the article. Thurlow is an out and out liar.
http://www.thehistorynet.com/ah/blkerryinvietnam/index3.html
I am not a mathematician, but something about your number-crunching doesn’t…well…“add-up.”
So you take 90,000, divide by 27 and get roughly 1 lost plan for every 3,333. Simple math, which only calculates the average lifetime of the 27 aircraft which crashed!!! No further information can be extrapolated from these numbers. A more accurate assessment of the dangers would be to divide all non-combat crashes for all aircraft for a given number of hours of flight. I think your numbers would change rather significantly.
huh?
1,628 combat deaths/10 years = ~1,600 deaths per year?
What is the difference between a “hostile” death and a “combat” death? Not being snarky, just curious.
.
totals != rate
You calculate the odds for President Bush using numbers specific to a select subset (pilots), yet you calculate the odds for Senator Kerry by using numbers for the entire Navy -which includes, I presume, supply ships, aircraft carriers, submarines oilers/tenders and lots of personnel stationed safely out of harms way.
Finally, I note that in calculating the odds, you did not include non-combat deaths, nor injuries. I’m just spitballing, but I think the contribution of these would be nominal (minimal?) when applied to the Texas Air National Guard, but would have a significant impact for service on a swiftboat in Vietnam
It’s bad enough comparing apples to grapefruits; it’s pointless to compare apples to basketballs.
Bah…statistically speaking, Shrub put himself (and others) more at risk by driving around loaded than he did by taking some flying lessons.
Maybe it’s because I’m on an old Mac, but the link you provided was very, very badly formatted. A search for “F-102” (I also tried searching for “102”) came up empty. Are you sure that’s the right URL?
No, that’s all right. They can do the deathbed. As a matter of fact, I insist.
footnote #7 ?
7 P.T. Bingham, Lt Col, USAF, "Improving Force Flexibil-
ity Through V/STOL," Air University Review,
(January-February, 1985).
AIRCRAFT LOSSES
AIRCRAFT TYPE FIRST 90000 HOURS FIRST 213000 HOURS
AV-8A 25 50 (Includes
A-4 37 64 RAF)
A-7 37 73
F-8 44 79
A-6 16 33
F-4 17 44
F-100 39 78
** F-102 27 38**
F-104 43 88
F-105 31 47
F-106 15 26
A-10 08 17
F-15 04 15
F-16 10 30
Today’s Salon has more in a column by Joe Conason on the latest effort to smear Kerry and his war record. (However, if you read it, you’ll have to see an ad first.) Much of it is a review of what he reported last Spring when this campaign first oozed up out of the the bowels of the earth.
Note that Sam conveniently failed to note that in the 123k hours following the first 90k hours, the 102 only had 11 losses, less than half the loss rate he rather misleadingly cited. And Bush was by no means flying the Delta Dart as it entered service. It had been phased out of the Air Force before he started, and was being phased out of the ANG by the time he lost his flying status. There’s been no data whatsoever presented about the rate of 102 losses during the time W was flying, nor any data about how much time he actually spent in one. So we really have no reason to believe Sam’s assertion that Bush was placing himself in any significant danger, beyond the general note that flying fighters isn’t the safest pursuit around.
Honestly, I didn’t even notice that. It’s a fair point, so maybe the odds against bush were more like 1 in 20 or 1 in 30. That still makes it one of the more dangerous ways to spend your time in the military.
Fuzzy math.
Actually, GWB chose one of the very safest ways he could to ride out the war. Just admit it.
As long as you’re pulling things out of your ass, keep an eye out for a remote control for a Sony, would’ja? I haven’t seen it for weeks.
Why don’t you admit, Diogenes, that it would have been far safer for Bush had he joined a regular Army National Guard unit, rather than flying an older, rather temperamental jet fighter. Several members of the Texas Air National Guard were killed in jet crashes while Bush served with them.
I’ve never claimed Bush to be any kind of war hero, and neither has he. But his military service did have some attendant risk.
Don’t pilots get all the girls? I’ve heard those jets referred to as “Sky penises.”
That’s some risk George took. 
One of Kerry’s critics is now retracting his statement:
Perhaps I’m not all that bright but there’s something about SBVT’s charges against Kerry that has me puzzled.
If the claims about Kerry’s heroism being falsified are true, who else was in on the medal scam and why? When Kerry was in Vietnam, he just an unknown enlistee. Nobody knew he was going to run for President 35 years later. What motivation would Kerry’s superiors in the Navy have for awarding him medals he may have not deserved? And, if this is such a big scandal that reveals the inherently deceitful nature of Kerry’s character, why hasn’t anyone said anything about it until very recently? I’m not from Massachusetts, but why didn’t these charges come up when Kerry ran for the Senate in 1984 or during his subsequent campaigns for re-election? I would think that if there were any real substance to these claims, at least one opponent wouldn’t hesitate to use them.
The SBVT’s anti-Kerry campaign is bollocks, plain and simple.
Well, as I understand it, nobody bothered to say anything because when Kerry was running for the Senate, he was only affecting the people in his own state. It wasn’t until he ran for President that they (SBVT) felt that he needed a little comeuppance. Because, y’know, nobody gave a damn until he might become president.
Preach it!
The motivation for the statements made in the books and whatnot are motivated by a single factor-the undying memory of actions taken by Kerry after returning from Vietnam held by bitter ex-nam vets who feel slighted by him turning on his brothers. Kinda sad, when you think about it.
Also, the SBVT guys have apparently been around since Kerry “outed” his fellow soldiers in the 70’s, so they’re not new, but they’re a fringe group who has finally found the limelight.
Sam
This story is hopping all over the place.
First, we get the Boston Globe
saying that a principal member of the Swifty Boys has retracted a principal claim, that is, that Kerry was unworthy of combat recognition recieved.
Then, the esteemed and impartial (snicker) Human Events comes out with a counter-story.
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_aff.html
Curioser.
If you read the affidavit from Lt. Cmr. Elliott, you came away no more certain. When he says that Kerry was lying about the event in question, he is not stating that the event didn’t happen, he is stating that the detals of the incident are in conflict: i.e., the posture of the armed, wounded and fleeing Viet Cong. Was he, in fact, turned or turning forward to bring his weapon to bear, or was he simply fleeing and was shot in the back by Kerry.
Further, Lt. Cmdr. Edwards reveals that he has no personal knowledge of the incident whatsoever, he was not there. He has chosen between conflicting testimony for reasons of his own, and has no more standing in this argument than you or I.
Prediction: these guys will back away from thier insinuations about Kerry’s combat record, Big John M done spanked them good. Back away? Run for cover, more likely. They will then continue saying things like “Kerry lied” as they attack his testimony to the Senate and his anti-war stance, then will try to pretend that was all they ever said.
So far as I’m concerned, the more attention this nasty little attempt at political thugee gets, the better.
elucidator
Who is Edwards? Or did you mean Elliot in the third to last paragraph?
A bit of clarification, please.
It’s my understanding that Senator Kerry’s award was a Bronze Star, not a Silver Star. I’m unsure of how these awards rank in the pantheon of military decorations, but I do know they’re not the same. It bothers me that the organizations that are doing the sloppy reporting on this basic fact tend to be the ones that are in support of John Kerry.
Still, I may have the whole thing bass-ackwards, myself. Was Kerry awarded an Bronze, or a Silver Star.