So if this had happened to a non-celebrity Scientologist family, how many folks would be saying that the religion shouldn’t be considered as a possible cause for the death? Maybe I’m misremembering things, but it seems like whenever we’ve had a Pit thread where there’s been the possibility of wrongdoing by parents, that led to a child’s death, folks haven’t been quite so vigorous in defense of the parents.
Celebrities tend to have devoted followers, some of whom will remain quiet on known negative aspects of said celeb, but the moment someone dares to speculate on something negative, or repeats a common rumor (which has never been conclusively proven to be true or false), they will leap in upon posters screeching how the celebrity is being falsely accused and that the poster will bring down the wrath of the celebs lawyers any moment now for daring to suggest such a thing. (Mind you, this has not happened in this thread, but its happened in others. I mention solely for illustrative purposes on how we some times react to celebrity news, and not an accusation towards any poster in this thread.)
Legitimate investigators of parental wrong doing do not publish that information in the media. If a doctor suspects abuse or neglect he can start an investigation, but the results of that, positive or negative, will not be made public. Ditto for child protective services. They do not make it public. In other words, the Travoltas could have been investigated multiple times and we might never know it because the authorities do not publicize such things.
It’s none of MY business - unless I see actual sign of neglect or abuse. NOT hearsay, not someone having a philosophical or religious dispute with someone. If someone has proof they should take it to the authorities. If someone suspects they should take it to the authorities. Publishing it in a blog or tabloid is not the correct response to suspicions of abuse or neglect, nor are non-celebrities expected to make public medical information. It’s a double standard and it’s ugly.
Right. Then take it to child protective services, not the media. If CPS was called in and the Travoltas cleared then, barring new/additional informaton it’s just slander and libel.
I disapprove of any kneejerk accusation of religion when a child dies. If, for example, I heard a Jehovah’s Witnesses’ child had had a seizure, fell down, hit his head, and died I wouldn’t automatically attribute the death to JW beliefs. If the child had an arm ripped off in a horrific accident and bled out, that would be a different matter. If Jett had killed himself by, say, hanging or shotgun I’d certainly be considering the Scientologist view on mental illness but that’s not (apparently) what happened. I do not see a definitive like between his supposed cause of death and his parents’ beliefs. Until I do I will not blame their religion. If the autopsy report turns up evidence of abuse or neglect that is also a different matter.
You are saying that Travolta seems totally removed from reality? Then the people who actually know him and enjoy his company must be totally removed from reality too. Everyone is wrong except you – is that it?
Why are you so suspicious? Do you think all scientologists are alike? What did one ever do to you?
I think that you are misinformed about the nature of seizure disorders and the treatment of seizure disorders or the indications for treatment or nontreatment. With no knowledge as to the frequency and severity of his seizures or anything else about his past medical history other than by hearsay, not even those of us who actually do know something about seizure management are able to say anything about if he should or should not have been on medication.
Meanwhile what circumstantial evidence do you have other than that there was a tragic death and that you despise the family’s religious identity? None.
Larry King Live has been discussing Jett Travolta’s death tonight. The family has released the information that Jett had a long history of seizures. He had been on medication that helped (apparently reducing seizures from 1 every 3 or 4 days to about 1 every 3 weeks or so) but as time went by the medication became less and less effective, until the seizure frequency was similar to before medication was started. Because of side effects and the potential for major organ damage he was taken off medication which was no longer helping him. Since that is, apparently, from information released from the immediate family I will accept taht as accurate. From what little I know of seizure disorders that’s not an unheard of situation and taking a person off medication that is no longer effective is entirely appropriate. Perhaps one of the doctors on this board might weigh in on that.
Reportedly, John Travolta was giving his son CPR when the medics showed up. Losing a child is horrific. Losing a child you’re trying to save and having him die literally under your hands is just… I don’t have words for that.
Mr. Travolta flew the family down to the Bahamas himself. He has stated he will not be doing the flying on the way back home. Presumably a pilot will be hired unless a qualified friend steps up. That’s entirely appropriate and really a relief. Pilots should not fly when there has been a death in family, particularly not one so emotionally charged.
Because they went out and made a big deal on various talk shows about organic carpet cleaners and how the chemicals in regular ones caused Jett’s illnesses etc. HOWEVER, as others have pointed out, the evidence for Kawasakis-the symptoms, and such do NOT add up.
For the record, I don’t hate Travolta. I can’t stand Kelly Preston, but I always liked John. (Tom Cruise, on the other hand…) My heart goes out to them, and I can’t imagine the pain they are going through. HOWEVER…IF he had autism, and IF they were not getting him proper treatment, that’s not right.
As for his seizures-medication can only control and lesson them-they can’t entirely eliminate seizures. I would also imagine that the “purification run-down” treatment might lower the threshhold for an attack. IF, just IF, they were not giving him seizure meds, THEN they deserve to be tarred and feathered. However, that’s only speculation, and from what I’ve heard, he was on some kind of medication. (And again, that doesn’t entirely prevent one from having seizures-it just makes them not as frequent)
(To be fair, not taking Jett out in public-could it have been possible that he might not have been able to handle large crowds and all the commotion very well?)
Usually a single med failing would not be reason to accept living with a seizure frequency of every few days. But there are certainly many cases in which the side effects of the medications are bigger than the benefits that a seizure medication protocol brings and in those circumstances going without medication is a reasonable decision to make.
Few people actually die having a seizure; this particular tragedy is very uncommon.
BTW, Jett may have had Kawasaki disease but having long term neurologic morbidity from Kawasaki disease is not something I can even find mentioned in the literature.
Kelly Preston went public with it voluntarily several years ago. Their family lawyer alsomade a statement two days ago saying he had Kawasaki disease which is what gave him the siezures (Scientology doesn’t recognise autism). She claimed he contracted Kawasaki from carpet cleaner (which no actual study has proved) and that they were treating him with Purification Rundowns.
The core belief of Scientology is that 75 million years ago an evil galactic warlord named Xenu gathered up all the bad guys in his galaxy, brought them to earth, dumped them into volcanos and then set off H-bombs to kill them. Tough luck for the human race, instead of dying they blasted into the atmosphere in a megazillionillionillion pieces and are still there today. They, called “Body Thetans,” constantly rain down on earth like a fine invisible mist and attach themselves to everybody. They’re the source of all the bad things that happen. Lucky us though, because Scientology can help with that! Of course, it costs lots of money to get rid of them, and then, once your present body is free of them, you have to start getting rid of the ones that infected your previous lives (oh, btw, Scientologists conveniently believe in reincarnation). That costs lots of money too. In fact, however much money you have conveniently determines how many past lives you have had and therefore how many more body thetans you have to get rid of.
Ok, it’s a tad more complicated than that, but not by much. Basically, Xenu is the Scientologist’s devil. Most Scientologists won’t learn about Xenu and the silly volcano story unless they’ve been in for quite a while, have spent lots of money, and are sufficiently brainwashed to swallow the load of hooey. Or unless they watch South Park.
The joke “I heard Xenus today, oh boy” was a riff on the Beatles song. Good one too!
In this case would think that it would lend more credence to the idea that there was a co-morbid issue that required monitoring in places other than just “dangerous” ones like the bathroom or kitchen. However, the recent news that his seizures had increased in frequency and he wasn’t on medication due to side effects also points to a need for a closer eye being kept on him. So the answer, I guess, is: both.
My niece- and the kids we have at work who have seizure disorders- don’t have baby monitors with them at all times, but I know that my sister checks on her pretty frequently at night, and our staff at work is more aware of where the SD kids are and what they’re doing.
Right. IF the kid had autism, which is nowhere proven. I get really cheesed off at people who think they, with no medical or psychological training, can watch 5 minutes of video and go “There! That movement! The way he looks at his hand! That PROVES he has autism!” No, folks, other things can cause some of the problems the kid exhibited.
There are also reports that Jett held hands, gave spontaneous hugs and demonstrated affection on his own initiative which is NOT indicative of autism, quite the contrary.
And, to top it off - what, exactly, IS “proper treatment” for autism? I was not aware that there was a definitive treatment for that disorder, or even a collection of treatments, just many suggestions, theories, and controversies.
On what do you base that opinion, that the “purification run-down” would exacerbate epilepsy?
Let me get this straight - if the medication is no longer helping him, and it is causing side effects he should take it anyway? Why? To make other people feel better? Continuing to give a medication that is not helping and causing serious side effects is just as abusive as denying medication that can help. Supposedly one of the anti-seizure drugs they tried was depakote, which among the side effects listed are vomiting, loss of appetite, fever, dark urine. liver damage, unusual bleeding (especially in the urine), hallucinations, and complete drowsiness. Gee, maybe some of his “unusual behavior” was due to being zonked-out and hallucinating? Maybe we should just continue to give him this drug even when it’s no longer helping control his seizures, his liver be damned, just to be doing something? Sometimes the worse part about dealing with a disability is realizing that, really nothing can be done, there is no drug, no treatment, no surgery, no therapy that will make it better, much less cure it.
I’m not sure “not taking him out in public” is the right way to look at it. I’ve seen videos and pictures of the family, including Jett, in places like Paris and at restaurants. Clearly, they did take him out in public. But as you point out, he may not have been able to handle crowds and certain situations in which case it is entirely appropriate that his parents shield him from those situations.
Just because his mother was willing to discuss medical issues several years ago does not obligate her to continue to cough up medical information to the media, or anyone else. Yes, we all know Scientology doesn’t recognize autism exists. That doesn’t mean he has autism, and even if he did, his autism did not cause his seizure disorder. It is possible to have more than one medical problem at the same time. The fact that some seizure medications can also cause abnormal behavior just further muddies the issue, doesn’t it? All that is known for sure is that the kid had some form of epilepsy and also some sort of abnormal development or behavior to go along with it. Attributing this to carpet cleaners and/or Kawasaki syndrome isn’t that different than parents attributing autism or allergies to vaccinations. When your kid is messed up you want to know why, and if the doctors can’t tell you it’s nothing unusual to draw your own conclusions whether they are right or wrong. Even so, that doesn’t mean a parent is neglectful or abusive if they have wrong ideas about how the kid came to have a problem.
On this point, at least, we can agree. However, it’s clear from watching those pictures and videos that SOMETHING was amiss with Jett. 17-year-old teenage boys simply do not act like that. Can’t say if it’s autism, or Down’s Syndrome, or brain damage caused by illicit Scientology treatments…but clearly, something was wrong.
Bullshit, bullshit, utter bullshit! Children with autism commonly display brief moments of connection – not all of them, but many do. That’s what makes the condition so agonizing for the parents, because it’s as if they are capable of connecting with people, but their minds are trapped within a maze and they can’t find their way out. If you had ANY knowledge or experience with autism, you would know that already.
There’s no single treatment for autism. Behavior modification therapy seems to be the most effective, plus occupational therapy and communication therapy. There’s currently NO medication to treat autism (at least, not yet) and there’s certainly no “cure”; and yes, there’s lots of controversial “snake oil” treatments. The syndrome itself is a mystery. However…there are options, but these options do no good if the parents don’t recognize their child has the syndrome in the first place. Especially if the parents are misguided by a religion that claims such syndromes DO NOT EXIST – which, as previously established, is Scientology’s mantra.
I just read this thread today because the Travolta’s situation hits way too close to home for me. As some of you may be aware, my oldest son died just over 2 years ago. Unfortunately I know all to well the pain and anguish they both are feeling. I can only imagine the horror of having to do this in the public eye though. The cruelty of some people, or just the thoughtless stupidity makes me sick. For fuck sakes, they are just two human beings that lost a beloved child, show some respect and just a bit of class.