In other news, Anna Nicole is still dead. Also in the Bahamas, I might add.
Niacin, in large doses, is quite dangerous.
Again, this is only guess work. HOWEVER, I’m thinking it’s probably not going to help. Stress on one’s body does have an effect. When I’m sick, or on my period, etc, that tends to trigger seizures.
Yes, because of course, there is only one medication out there to treat epilepsy. :rolleyes: (Oh, and again, some of the side effects you describe are ones that are effects of the purification rundown treatment-severe liver damage, for one.)
And I’m speaking as one who HAS epilepsy. Ever have a seizure? They’re scary, they’re painful, and if not treated, they only become worse. The grand mal black outs leave me with memory loss, headaches so severe I can’t even move my head an inch without excruciating pain, and a sort of “hangover” for several days, in which I feel sort of panicky, and where everything is strange and unfamiliar. The smaller ones aren’t quite so bad, but they still suck.
And I never said that there was a cure. However, there is more than one drug out there to treat seizure disorders (and btw, epilepsy is not the only one), and while there is no cure, there ARE ways to make seizures less frequent and less severe.
Again, speaking as someone who HAS epilepsy, not attempting SOME WAY of treating it, is neglect. End of story. No excuse.
But finally, and most importantly, I’m speaking hypothetically. What IF. All right? So calm down, please. Seizures happen to be a big trigger issue for me. (No pun intended)
No link yet, but the coroner is reporting no head trauma, so it looks like the seizure itself was the culprit. How awful. I hope he didn’t suffer.
If it was, then it was probably either instantaneous, or else he blacked out. Hopefully. 
Poor, poor boy.
Absolutely something was wrong with Jett. It is tragic the young man had problems.
What I heard - and admittedly it was second hand, but no more so than that article by Kenny-the-suicidal-restaurant-owner, is that these displays of affection were not “brief” but daily and near-constant at times. That his normal conduct towards other family members involved quite a bit of demonstrated and physical affection. That is not consistent with autism, although yes, there may be exceptions. My point being that for everyone screaming “AUTISM! AUTISM!” there seems to be someone else making an opposite case. I guess saying “poor Jett is brain damaged” is not as sexy as say “poor Jett is autistic” which may be why alternatives aren’t featured as prominently in the media.
Admittedly I am not autistic. I know a few people who are, though I do not know them well. Those people - with direct experience with autism - I have known to express reservations with many forms of behavior modification and concerned about a potential for abuse. Temple Grandin (who I do not know, but who is regarded as a voice for the autistic) has spoken of some of the repetitive behaviors and “stims” being soothing and calming and removing them provokes anxieties that may lead to treatment with drugs that would not be otherwise needed. One of the autistic people I know from the internet is quite clear that he uses his “stims” as a stress relief and his wife confirms this - she has also mentioned that he does them in private or discretely so he’s not, for example, rocking back and forth at the mall and scaring the normals. My point there being I’ve heard reservations about behavior modification therapy that echo concerns about psychiatry and it’s potential for abuse. It’s “effective” in disguising symptoms, but it in no way cures autism. I have to wonder if it is done more to make other people more comfortable sometimes than truly to benefit the recipient.
I’ve never heard anyone complain about occupational or communication therapy, but then those are hardly limited to autism. Except for that “facilitated communication” BS a few years back, which was sort of like ouija boards but with autistic children. It made a lot of parents happy to think there were geniuses locked up inside their uncommunicative children but it turned out not to be so.
It seems to me a lot of treatment for autism these days is symptom treatment - does having the label “autism” really make that much material difference in the end? If the child is having communication problems and receives therapy for it, and occupational therapy because they have other issues, and special education because they have learning difficulties, and social behavior therapy to teach them appropriate behavior towards others, does it really matter what the diagnosis is? Since there is NO treatment specific to autism I wonder if the most important use of the official diagnosis is on the form for billing insurance companies. There are people who weren’t diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum until they were adults with children of their own - they may have been therapy for problems when they were young without an official diagnosis. Would having that label on them make any difference at all in the end?
I am not bringing this up to argue against diagnosing children, or against treating any sort of disorder, but rather as food for thought and in opposition to what appears to be some automatic assumptions. The question in my mind is whether or not having a particular diagnosis attached to Jett Travolta would have made any difference at all? Clearly there was something wrong with the young man. Equally clearly, based on the baby monitors, round-the-clock nannies, and so forth, his parents recognized something was wrong. If he was receiving behavior therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, etc. in conjunction with his obvious problems (I realize that has not been established, this is hypothetical) would it matter if the diagnosis was “autism” as opposed to, say “mental retardation” or “brain damage”? Is there some specific treatment solely for autism that would not be given without that label?
Yes, I am aware of that. My husband was on niacin at one point for medical problems and it had to be discontinued due to side effects. I would not make light of it.
I am not clear if Jett had had one or two run-down therapies or if that was an on-going form of treatment. That would make a difference in my viewpoint.
Yes, I am aware there is more than one medication for seizures. I am also aware that there are some unfortunate people who can tolerate none of them, or who derive benefit from none of them. Puberty - which Jett was either going through or had just gone through - can also complicate treating seizure disorders, requiring reworking treatment plans and strategies. The depakote was mentioned as just one medication, not the only one, and was shown as an example of one that can have bad side effects.
Ironic, of course, that both seizure medication and Scientologist run-down therapy can cause liver damage. Then again, a LOT of medications can cause liver damage, including mundane over the counter Tylenol. It is also entirely possible that Jett will be found to have no liver damage… unless the autopsy results are released we will never know.
Nope, thank goodness. I’ve seen them, though. Once me and three other people pulled a young man off the train tracks at an El stop when he fell on them while having a seizure - we didn’t want him to get run over. Pretty damn scary for everyone, although I was the one telling people not to jam anything in his mouth and stop being hysterical, it was very unlikely he was going to die once we got him out of the way of the train.
Which is why people with seizures resistant to treatment are really in a bad spot. Even so, if a medication can’t be found that can help then the obligation is to do no harm… which might mean no medications at all in some cases. That would have to be determined by informed medical personnel, though. It would not be done lightly. But the Travoltas have never denied their son has seizures, they have certainly sought treatment for them. I fail to see where their Scientology beliefs would interfere with seizure treatment in any way.
So tell me - do you think it is possible that either seizures or drug side effects could have affected Jett Travolta’s behavior? I recall a classmate with epilepsy when I was in school about 35 years ago who was “spacey” and odd and peculiar and had a very, very bad memory - was that the disorder or the drugs or some of both? (Just to be fair - I’ve known several other people with seizure disorders who were very much normal in behavior and memory. I am well aware that *most *people prone to seizures are pretty normal almost all the time.)
Which, regretably, are not always effective for everyone.
And where is the evidence that the Travoltas didn’t try treatment? They have been very clear that Jett was medicated and that it did help. Then it stopped helping. They aren’t going around saying he’s cured when clearly he was not. Hell, they had someone with him 24/7! And baby monitors! Those are not the actions of people in denial.
John Travolta said that when his kid had (allegedly) Kawasaki’s Syndrome he ran a 105 degree fever for several days. If that is true such a fever by itself could have cause brain damage regardless of cause. If that is true then the case for brain damage rather than autism is much stronger, isn’t it?
Well, I can understand seizures being a hot-button item for you. I certainly didn’t intend to come across as strident. I still think there is all too much kneejerk “They’re Scientologist! They’re neglectful parents!” going on around here.
There is indeed a treatment specific to autism- applied behavioral analysis. It is used successfully to treat autism. ABA targets specific behaviors and areas of need and teaches autistic children to recognize and respond appropriately to multiple situations and stimuli.
Temple Grandin is very controversial and she does not speak for the larger autistic community.
My son was diagnosed with autism and has always been quite affectionate. Autism is a spectrum and you cannot point to a single behavior (or lack of it) and say “Aha! Autism!” It doesn’t work that way. An autism diagnosis takes time and multiple medical experts- no one can diagnose it from a distance with any hope of accuracy. Autism is not merely a “label” for insurance billing. Mis-diagnosis can mean that someone does not get the kind of help they need.
I’m sorry about your son.
Celebrities do not get a pass on people asking questions, when it’s already been established that they belong to a “religion” that would deny or minimize Jett’s possible conditions. Especially when it’s been established (to my satisfaction anyway) that they’ve abused their son in the past (making a kid go through Purification Rundown).
I’m sorry for any parent who loses a child, but if their Scientology beliefs had anything at all to do with Jett not getting proper care, which if that had anything at all to do with his death, that should come to light. Do you think that celebrities are special people who are above questioning, or that we should have waited a few more days to start questioning? If a non-celebrity parent’s child dies of neglect (I’m not saying that happened here), is it “classless” and “cruel” to investigate and ask questions? What makes them so special? That they’re Scientologists or that they’re celebrities?
I do have sympathy. For Jett and his sister.
Death certificate: Travolta son killed by seizure
So it would seem that the earlier reports were full of misinformation, unless someone can hit their head hard enough for them to die and leave no head trauma.
Well, maybe it is kneejerk. But Scientology’s medical theories are bullshit at best, and down right lethal at worst.
Look, I’m not saying that he was neglected. Or that Kelly and John were responsible for Jett’s death, even. Just that I don’t think that Hubbard’s treatment theories are helpful. And there WAS something dodgy about the situation. The Kawasaki claim always sounded rather weak-especially since he never seemed to have the symptoms described by various doctors. I don’t know WHAT he had, or what was wrong-but I’m rather skeptical.
And yes, perhaps in Jett’s case, there was no way to treat his seizure disorder-but all I read was that he was taken off the one drug-I didn’t read that another was attempted. Also, sometimes you have to take more than one medication at a time-I’m on both Lamictal and Zonegran to treat mine. And considering, again, the history of Scientology, forgive me if I’m a little :dubious:
I can completely understand someone coming across a young man lying on the floor of a bathroom next to the various hard-surface fixtures and assuming he fell AND hit his head. Particularly when the young man in question is prone to seizures.
I suppose he could have had a fatal seizure (rare, yes, but possible), collapsed without hitting his head, and stopped breathing while lying on the floor.
Oh, I agree, Scientology is a pile of poop, but so are a lot of other religious beliefs that can interfere with medical treatment.
I suspect the kid DID have a problem when he was two, but that maybe nobody knows exactly what was wrong with him. One doctor walks by, says “It’s Kawasaki’s”, and the parents latch onto it. They’re looking for answers. :::shrug:::
The “problem” is that very little about his medical history has ever been released. And the parents are under no obligation to release it. That’s only a problem for those of kicking the issue around, it’s not really a problem for the family who are allowed their privacy even if they are celebrities.
Maybe not-but it’s not stopped them in the past commenting on other aspects, such as the carpet cleaners, and Kawasakis, etcs. So I smell bullshit.
And another thing-you DO NOT take someone off of a seizure med cold turkey like that.
Um… I don’t recall hearing that they took him off “cold turkey”. Where did you get that?
No shit. And the speculation and bullshit being spouted is just unreal.
Nobody has a right to Jett’s medical information.
Where do you get the Travolta’s just woke up one day and decided to quick Jett’s meds cold turkey?
Abuse and lack of proper care? I doubt it. More like gossip and cheap shots.
Huh, I missed that. Looks like the Purification Rundown side effects will now be blamed on Depokate.
Actually it proves that he did not have liver damage from the “purification” treatments - labs are checked before meds are started and then monitored regularly. If there had been elevated enzymes at baseline the med would not have been started. End of that line of inquiry.
Meanwhile thisabout the claim that Jett’s neurologic problems had to do with his Kawasaki diease.
So I didn’t miss anything in my literature review I guess.
How do we know that Jett didn’t go through the Purification Rundown after he started the meds? I don’t know of course, but that is possible so I don’t see it as an end to that line of inquiry.
Though, unless the autopsy reports are made public (and it looks like they’re not going to be) there will be no line of inquiry by anybody in the future, because Jett was conveniently cremated.
Ah well.
Not having medical records I can’t say for sure, but, the Purification rubdown was described by you as a treatment for the Kawasaki disease - which he had many years ago - while his stopping Depakote was a recent event from the descriptions.
Your reaches are getting longer and longer.
According to my link in post #102, it was 2003 when Preston said Jett had been through the Purification Rundown. First, we don’t know when Jett started taking Depakote, we only know (have been told) that he stopped taking it recently. Second, Scientologists don’t just do one PR, they often do several. Some go through it every year as a “preventative” measure, kinda like having a colon cleanse regularly because they think it helps keep things moving. If the Travoltas truly believed that PR helped Jett, which they did since Preston said so, he wouldn’t have just had one. He likely would have had several over the years.
I still don’t see a problem with speculating that PR damaged Jett’s liver, but we’ll never know, so there’s no point in continuing.
Let’s say, just for argument, we did have all the pertinent medical records. They would show one of two things:
-
Jett had PR’s, but they were all years ago, before he started showing liver damage. In which case the damage was caused by depakote (or some other drug, possibly, that he had been prescribed)
-
He was having PR’s simultaneously with depakote. In which case there would be no way to determine whether the damage was from the PR’s or the medications he was on.
As for cremation being “convenient” - yes, actually it is. My oldest sister was cremated. So are lots of other people. Your implication that that was done to cover up wrong doing is skirting the edge of insulting.