Hmmm. Sounds pretty close to some other guy drafted at 6’0", 213lbs, running a 4.8 40. I don’t know that the Chargers were all that thrilled with him, but the Saints seem happy enough.
Yeah, a very tough batch of conf games for him. I read earlier today on some sports site that he may not start right away. Huh… At least he doesn’t have AJ’s problems
If he stays healthy, I expect Manziel will be a very good pro. It seems to me that a lot of people are overthinking this, looking for all manner of reasons (many of them largely intangible, others wholly intangible) why his prodigious talent will come to naught. Not to say the other stuff doesn’t matter, but when someone has great arm strength and accuracy, and the rest of his game is at least good enough for him to be extremely successful in college (in the SEC!), he’s already like 80% of the way there. Yes, he has to improve things like read progression and pocket presence, but so does virtually every rookie QB. Unless he’s as spoiled and lazy as his worst critics maintain AND is never going to mature emotionally from where he is as a 21-year old, I see no reason he can’t mature as a QB.
[Off-topic, but the other QB in this class I liked more than I expected is Derek Carr. It is a problem that he played exclusively out of the shotgun in a pass-wacky offense, but it’s less of a problem than it would have been 10 years ago, and, again, he really has the arm talent. In particular, his release is super-quick. His decision-making also struck me as pretty good, though I’m only sorta confident about that conclusion.
Bortles: Yuck. Jacksonville will be picking another QB is the top 3 overall by 2018.
Bridgewater: Solid pro, probably a low ceiling, but not so low that he can’t be in the top 25% of NFL QBs in his prime if his development is successful. If Minny could also draft a time machine and send Bridgewater back to when his prime would overlap with Adrian Peterson’s, they might really have something.]
He also was not a senior. Captains are nearly always seniors, very occasionally juniors. He was never more than a sophomore.
Well yeah, I’m not saying he can’t be successful, just that it isn’t as likely. Cam Newton is a physical freak of nature, being that big AND that fast. Brees, and possibly Manziel, are or can be good despite what are considered to be physically limiting factors.
What problems does AJ (assuming McCarron, not Green) have? He was a 5th round pick and a backup.
I only saw him play a few times on TV. I was impressed. But I don’t think his style of play fits the NFL that well. I think he has the skills to adapt to the pro game and has the potential to be a good pro.
For some reason I really want him to succeed. However, the more I think about it the less I think it will happen. I just don’t think he has the heart and the drive. He is going to get into off field antics. He is going to say stupid shit that hurts the team. He is not going to work as hard as he needs to.
There’s another comparison to be drawn there, though. The overwhelming consensus of the average fans who got involved in draft talk around the time Newton was drafted, if you recall, was that Newton was going to be a bust. You could confirm that by revisiting the discussion on this board, unless I’m mistaken. Put him in a lineup with Vince Young and JaMarcus Russell and most people wouldn’t have been able to pick him out. Newton’s prodigious physical gifts weren’t good enough at the time he was drafted for most people to accept that he’d be able to overcome his “attitude.”
Turns out, though, he was good at football and that’s why he seemed good at football. It’s only in retrospect that this was obvious for a lot of folks. So maybe the lesson is, as Varlos said, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
I admit to being one who thought Cam wouldn’t put in the time or change his attitude enough to really succeed in the NFL. He’s surprised me with his abilities so far.
But let’s not overstate his success. He’s good, yes. But he’s not great, he’s not elite, and whether he’s actually progressing (he is getting more efficient) is debateable. He’s had his problems with his leadership and questions about his conduct on the field. He’s the average NFL QB in passer rating (16th), his rushing totals have decreased every year in the league, as has his passing yardage, and he’s 0-1 in the playoffs after throwing two interceptions last year.
I think Manziel could match Cam’s numbers (although I really doubt the Browns will be as pass happy as the Chud had the Panthers in Cam’s first year) eventually. But he’s much more at risk of injury than Cam too.
He seems like such a gigantic douche bag; so it wouldn’t bother me to see him fail.
Barring that, you don’t see a lot of NFL QBs who stay in the game long that are known for their running abilities. Longevity for a QB is more often than not, those who can stay in the pocket and throw it a mile.
It’ll be fun to watch his first year and see him get crushed by players that are SO much better than he’s ever faced before.
He was predicting late 1st to early 2nd round pick for himself, had a Twitter-pated couple of days, and there were rumors he slipped in the draft because of how he came across in predraft team interviews. I think he could end up doing well in a couple of years, probably in a trade.
You may be right. It seems most draftniks always prefer size in a QB, much like they like speed in a WR or DB.
I urge any of you to read that article posted upthread about the rogue Manziel family history. Pretty fascinating stiff.
I think Johnny Football is the most polarizing person in the draft since Brian Bozworth. People love him or hate him, but few have no opinion.
I hate the thought of pulling for a Browns QB. But every time I watched Manziel, he was electric. And I miss hating the Browns. I hope Manziel can pull them up to be hate worthy again. My hate transferred to Baltimore and has stayed there. And. I know I will always hate the Ravens. But my Browns hate is dormant.
Manziel does, however, have a big personality. The good news is he wasn’t a top 5 pick (or even a top 10) so if he fails, it won’t be perceived to be as bad as Leaf, Young, or Russell. It will be more like Brady Quinn. Or maybe a better comparison is Tebow.
I don’t know. The kid has a certain arrogance that I like. He is a winner and has won everywhere. And unlike Leaf, Young or Russell, I get the impression (no idea if it is right or wrong) that it will embarrass him to fail. Those other 3 all got huge contracts, and didn’t have much drive to succeed. I think all of them were pretty limited with their football IQs, knew very early on that they were in over their heads, and flamed out early. I think Manziel will be one of these guys that will have to be taken off the field on a stretcher to get him out of the starting lineup once he’s in.
And Cleveland is going to love him… They already do, but if he starts winning regularly, he will become a folk hero.
Things are bizarre over in Cleveland. The organization seems to be going out of it’s way to make sure he knows he ain’t shit and spending alot of time telling the media he ain’t shit or anything special. I understand tough love and the dude is too cocky but they don’t seem to be acting smartly.
I don’t like the guy myself but I’m trying to figure out why on earth they drafted him if they didn’t want him.
I actually LOVE that somebody is finally putting Manziel in his place! Somebody had to get some humility in him, and it’s better late than never.
I don’t think he (Manziel) or Geno Smith are going to make it.
Maybe the Browns are angling for a trade with Dallas.
Not a great first year:
ESPN reports on Manziel’s first year.
It includes these gems:
'Those who spoke talked of a yearlong pattern that showed a lack of commitment and preparation, a failure to be ready when given a chance in his first start against Cincinnati and a continued commitment to nightlife, which affected his preparation and work while in the team facility."
"As one player put it, Manziel throughout the entire 2014 season was a “100 percent joke.”
"“The way we talked about him in meetings, the kid never put in the time he needed to – studying film, organizing workouts, 7-on-7 workouts – he didn’t do it,” said one NFC scout with a Southeastern Conference focus. “His thing would be he’s going to show up on Saturdays, ‘I’m a gamer.’ He’d show up for practices and games but that’s about it. Johnny thought he was an NFL superstar before he came [into the league].”
Early results are not promising.
This appears to be a pretty accurate prediction (supported by Hamlet’s post).
Perhaps you did not word this the way you meant, but obviously this isn’t literally true, as there are a great many NFL players who were good players immediately upon commencing their pro careers. Russell Wilson was a first rate QB the moment he started.
I’ve not convinced, though, that Manziel’s lack of work ethic is connected to his confidence. Indeed, I would suggest that a tremendously optimistic confidence is necessary in pro sports. I can think of many NFL players, or athletes in other sports, who were massively confident and felt they were the king shit or turd mountain, but had a work ethic to go along with it. Some guys are just driven. Lawrence Taylor never lacked for confidence; he was wildly arrogant, actually. But after he finished talking about how great he was, he’d run off and lift weights and watch game films like he was three men.
There’s a cool story in “Moneyball” about Bill Beane and Lenny Dykstra. Beane was immensely talented, giften with far more physical skill than most ballplayers, but lacked confidence. Dykstra was enormously confident; one day they were watching the opposing pitcher warm up and Dykstra said something like “look at that idiot, who is that? He sucks, I’m gonna rip him.” Beane replied “Jesus Christ, Lenny, that’s Steve Carlton. He’s one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived.” Dystra said, “Whatever, I’m going to beat him like a rented mule.” Nonetheless, it was Dykstra who became an All-Star. Beane’s lack of confidence contributed to his failure as a major leaguer.
Michael Jordan was as confident an athlete as ever lived, but he was also the hardest working man in the NBA. Wayne Gretzky knew from about age 6 on that he was always the best player on the ice, but his work ethic was superhuman. Manny Ramirez was a flighty twit in many ways who just figured the hits would keep coming - but he showed up early for extra batting practice almost every day of his professional career.
For all his confidence he was still dedicated to his craft. Manziel’s confidence is an asset, not a drawback. His lack of work ethic is an independent problem.