[Moderating]
Nobody’s broken any rules, but let’s not have this turn into a string of ethnic jokes, please.
[/Moderating]
He didn’t make Polish jokes, he joked about how lame Polish jokes used to be. It’s a bit meta.
It was a well crafted comedy bit. The purposefully hack Polish joke, the over explaining about the lameness of the joke then the tag at the end. Comedy.
So I didn’t have any gripes about the Israel-Palestine episode. But I do have gripes here. I’m not sure they’re pit-level, but I suspect it wouldn’t fit the CS thread.
Jon did a segment on the “border crisis” nonsense. And, in the first half, he did it very well. He brought up the fearmongering, pointed out the political BS, acknowledged what was true about it, but also debunked the bad parts.
It’s the second half that I think he screws up on. He actually spread the exact message that Republican governors were pushing when they started shipping migrants to other locations. He goes along with their framing, without pointing out the whole picture. He doesn’t even acknowledge why the shipping happened, or how cruel it is to use human beings to make a political point. And he doesn’t acknowledge that this shipping of migrants from other locations was not because they couldn’t afford them, but to try and overwhelm these cities, to get them to say these exact things. It’s not NYC giving up on their ideals because of fear. It’s them facing the practicalities of a concerted effort to overwhelm them.
Now, to be very clear. I’m not saying don’t cover this. I’m not saying don’t cover them saying they accept everyone only to then later be overwhelmed. I’m saying cover all of it, not just the part that plays into the exact narrative that Republican politicians were trying to create.
It’s frustrating, because I don’t think Jon doing this on purpose. I just think he is out of step with more modern tactics. I think he sees the obvious MAGA crap to debunk, but misses what the MAGA stuff is a distraction from. He’s missing the more ordinary Republican BS, the stuff that’s actually crafty.
And, to be clear, I’m aware that I have my own biases. I’m aware the way I framed it makes it not the Democrat’s fault at all, and you could argue that’s wrong. But my point was just to show there is more to this, and I wish that Jon would cover that.
I’m frustrated that it seems like Jon attacks the worst of what Republican say, but then lets his guard down on the lesser stuff. It really feels like he’s falling for their arguments–without realizing it. It’s like the people who say they are left-wing, but then go after people for being “too woke.” They don’t notice the Overton window being shifted. They don’t notice the tactics being used.
That’s something a lot of us had to learn about after 2016, realizing how rhetoric and politics mattered more than facts when it comes to convincing people.
I’m concerned that tactics like the bussing migrants that people saw through before—that we all knew was cruel and disingenuous—are now being seen as normal and acceptable tactics.
I mean, FFS, if you just type in migrants NYC into Google, you see that they’re still helping even though they say they’re full, just trying to get more money from the government to help.
Yes good points. This actually went under my radar while I was watching because it was in the passive voice; he talked about Democrats stated ideals, and then criticized some of them for falling short of them when migrants were trucked in.
As if these trucks were just some force of nature.
But no, migrants being trucked around with no heads up is a deliberate stunt to “own the libs” and be cruel to brown people. Plus of course if Republicans genuinely wanted to solve this then they would have passed, or at least considered, the border bill (I don’t recall if Jon mentioned it?)
And obviously this is not a binary situation. Just being generally pro-migration and/or anti-cruelty does not entail you believe in literal open borders, or that an unlimited number of people can camp in your kitchen.
You mean it’s like he’s now infected with “Bill Maher Disease”?
(Maybe they’re putting ‘easy manipulation’ mind control drugs in the dispensary pot)
I think it’s this need some have to try to find a middle ground on issues and concede that the GOP has at least some things right.
That’s the old politics. Jon needs to adapt to the reality that no, on some issues at least, one side has a position based on misinformation and bigotry, the end. There’s no good spin for human trafficking within the US or taking glee at putting razor wire in the river.
Are we watching the same show? I really don’t think that at any point Jon “conceded that the GOP has at least some things right”.
Pointing out flaws on “our side” (and there are flaws on “our side”!) is not an endorsement of the enemy.
Insisting on that sort of “purity test” where your side must not be criticized, and where even the most minor criticism shows you secretly support The Enemy, is how you end up with Tucker Carlson.
“But…but… but… OMG TTRRUUUUMMMPP!!! NOOOO!!!” Just to save prople the bother.
Yes, exactly. I get TDS on Paramount+, so I just last night watched this segment. I couldn’t believe Stewart falling for that transparently disingenuous tactic of the right, and acting as if left-leaning leaders in these big cities are being hypocrites because they are not prepared to accept sudden busloads of migrants.
And also, as you say, and as I said in the original ‘Return of Stewart’ thread, I’m not making the argument, and I don’t think anybody is, to just ignore glaring issues on the left. Skewer both sides equally. Fine. But do it in a fair and truthful way, that gets to the root of what is really happening. That is exactly what Stewart used to be very good at, and he is really disappointing me in this new incarnation.
Well he mentioned trucking the immigrants round, without criticizing it or even giving much context.
This has nothing to do with what I said.
We can absolutely criticize the dems on immigration. The point was about discussing the trucking of migrants around the country, and the absence of any criticism of such.
But nice to see another outing of Tucker Strawman
I just watched Monday’s TDS (Jon Stewart) segment – about 15min.
I’ll go out on a limb and say that he probably struck the balance much closer to where Dopers would prefer he had struck it all along.
Yes, a great episode.
I agree. Yes, more of that, please!
I think that self deprecating bit with the mirror made up a lot for his mistakes on the first show that were the subject of the OP.
And it was a very pretty mirror.
I can’t watch The daily show every day like I used to but I make sure to catch Stewart’s bits on YouTube the next day.
I’ll agree that this week’s show definitely seem to be a mea culpa from Jon about that first episode he did a couple weeks ago. I remember I listened to a lot of his podcasts that he did through Apple and even a year ago I thought that while he is still the Jon Stewart that I’ve always known. It seems clear to me that in some ways he wants the Republican party to be back to what it was 20 or 30 years ago. B******* and wrong on everything but not an active threat to democracy. And he tried to act like it was still 2004 and not 2024. For whatever reason I think that attitude carried over to the first show but he definitely seems to be course correcting.
Disagree. I don’t think it was a meal culpa at all. I still think he feels the same way he did then, which I don’t have a problem with. But he was making self-asare jokes about all the overblown outrage he knows that first episode caused.
I had a thought. I’m still trying to think through my opinions on this. I’ve been a Jon Stewart fan for a very long time and he’s definitely dropping the ball largely in his return. As my last post said I do think his last episode was better.
I know from public statements and things he said on his podcast and on the show that he understands the seriousness that the moment needs. From some of the statements he’s made on The daily show it seems that he does not. As I said he’s still acting like it’s 2004 not 2024. Where’s the cognitive distance coming from? The daily show is a comedy show first and foremost. I get that. But why when taking only his statements on the show does it seem like he’s not treating it with the seriousness it deserves?
Please note I’m trying to ask questions not make declarative statements.
Gah. This post is messy. I’m having trouble ordering my thoughts on this.