Wait a minute. Jeans are non-conformist clothes now?
I was on a Federal jury that sat on a trial lasting 8 weeks. I expected an unpleasant experience, but found it an interesting and enlightening learning experience. The judge and his staff did everything possible to make it comfortable for the jury, including a request that the jurors wear “business casual”. Not jeans and tees, but no suits or ties, either.
Unless you’re afflicted by crushing poverty, there’s no reason why anyone can’t have a suit. I’m amazed by the number of people in this thread who say they don’t own one. All of my life, from childhood onward, I’ve owned at least one “nice” outfit.
Buying a nice set of clothes doesn’t have to break the bank. Last time I was in Goodwill I saw a good quality men’s suit for $15, and ties were going for a buck. Ladies’ clothes were even cheaper. (My “funeral pantsuit” was bought at a closeout store for about $20.)
Back in the days of hoopskirts, a woman was expected to own a black dress when she got married. It was a sad fact of life that some of her children were likely to die or that she would be widowed and so it was expected that an adult woman would have the suitable outfit to wear during these times.
There’s a big difference between jury duty and weddings/funerals/etc. You can choose not to go the latter, you can’t choose not to due jury.
I think it’s a regional thing. Where I live it is rare to see someone in a suit.
I’ve been on jury duty twice. Once as the foreman. I just wore what I wear to work. Jeans a shirt and running shoes. I probably choose a shirt with a collar on it, but that’s about it.
I’m 45 and don’t own a suit. I’ve got a nice sport coat and slacks that I drag out for weddings, but that’s about it. At those occasions, there are always people in jeans and a shirt.
We are pretty laid back where I live. It’s a ski and ranching community that gets nasty, nasty weather. A suit is just impractical.
As far as going to a thrift store, it’s not money, it’s need. I really have no need for a suit. If I did, I’d buy one.
I don’t buy things I don’t need. I don’t need a suit. I don’t buy a suit. It is a waste of money. Why do you want me to waste my money on vanity?
It’s been a very long time since I served on a jury, and I really don’t remember whether I wore a tie or not. Probably so, because the job I had at the time required a tie and I was just used to it. But I do remember that there were many styles of dress. As far as I am concerned, “nice” clothes worn modestly (that is, to chest hairs hanging out or tattoedf titties ditto) are fine and respectful. I would think a man wearing blue jeans and a tank top showing underarm hair would be disrespectful, but a nice polo shirt and slacks would not.
Likening a necktie to a noose certainly resonates with me. I’ve always hated ties, and I syuspect that I must have been hanged in a prior existence. If I ever do wear a tie now it is loosened, so as to minimize the feeling of something closing about my throat.
If a judge wants me to concentrate and actually do a good job as a juror, I will have to be allowed at least to loosen my tie.
You never have to go to weddings or funerals? You never dine in nice resturants? You never go on job interviews? You’ve never needed to go to court? You’ve never gone to a fancy party? You never go to business meetings or seminars?
It’s not vanity.Vanity is something you do to prop up your own ego. Dressing appropriately for a situation is simply good manners.
I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of restaurants in the Bay Area where a suit is required. Business meetings? No way. A lot of salesmen have given up suits so they’ll fit in. Seminars? No. Most people delivering papers no longer wear suits.
One of the software trade rags I get even had a little item about how it is now inappropriate to wear a suit to an interview - got it today, very appropriate.
Around here, suits are over.
I’ve been called to jury duty twice, once at a local court and once to the Old Bailey , one of more important courts in England. Must admit I went along in my standard workwear, which at the moment is trainers/jeans/t-shirt without thinking a great deal of it.
Don’t think my atire had any bearing on my capability to undertake my duties and I’d personally be more worried that the duries I saw picked were uniformly made up of people who couldn’t get out of it or had nothing better to do - the elderly, unemployed, people with crap excuses and public sector workers who wouldn’t face problems at work over jury duty. You should have seen the terror on some peoples faces as we were lead into court no.1 at the Bailey and they twigged we might be on the Billie-Jo trial - which would likely take months. Everyone with a job & half a brain immediately started racking their brains for how to get out of it…
Hm… shirts and jeans, actually. Since they’re supposed to be my peers and all.
I know quite a few guys who’d be so bothered by a tie that it would keep them from concentrating properly on the procedures.
Maybe you can buy off the rack, but I apparently have a very strangely shaped body.
I can’t find a good-looking suit anywhere, except in the upper-echelon suit-stores.
I don’t have (or want to spend) 700 Euros on a piece of clothing I almost never wear and which makes me feel like I look like a total prat.
Sounds like you need to choose a better class of restauarant?
If I’m paying someone to serve me food - especially in a high-end place - I’ll wear what I like. If they don’t like it I’ll happily take my business elsewhere.
Any restuarant that insists its customers wear a suit ‘n’ tie is likely to be more interested in appearances, and less interested in the quality of the food on the plate… and that’s of zero interest to me.
Voyager has it right - most major firms have now realised that the ability to perform one’s job is not directly linked to wearing 19th century neck decoration.
Why would I want a suit for any of the above?
It would most assuredly be vanity if I went out and spent any money at all on pretty clothes I don’t need just so people might think I look good. I wear jeans to work, plus a polo or t-shirt, sneakers or other casual shoes.
Everyone always wants to tie their own preferences in with “manners.” Well, you don’t get to say what I may wear. I’ll repeat, clothes are a tool. I will use them for that purpose, not for the purpose of impressing people–especially impressing people like a lawyer in a trial. If they send me home for wearing jeans, am I supposed to regret that?
Tomato, tamatoe.
And you do realize that “appropriate” as you keep using it is subjective, right?
Well, considering you’re a girl, substitute “pantsuit.” Frankly, I can’t imagine wearing anything other than a pantsuit or nice dress to a wedding, funeral or any other occasion for which nice dress is called. To do otherwise is to say that you have no respect for the event or the people involved.
If your employer permits that, more power to him. However, there are a lot of employers who don’t. (My work dress code is “business casual.”) Would you turn down a job because of higher standards of dress? If so, you’re severely limiting your opprotunities. Don’t equate that with “less money”-- my job pays peanuts but I took it because it fulfills me creatively and it’s what I really want to do. If your job is exactly what you want to do and they allow jeans, that’s great, but circumstances change.
It’s not my preferences. I would much prefer to wear my pajamas, which are the clothing that I’m most comfortable wearing. However, I’m mature enough to put my preferences aside and dress as the solemnity of the event requires. I don’t want to look out-of-place and I most certainly don’t want my host to think I couldn’t be arsed to dress up a little.
Yes, they are a tool, and everyone knows you should use the right tool for the job. You wouldn’t use a screwdriver to try to pound in a nail, would you? A screwdriver is a fine tool (and a pretty tasty drink, come to think of it) but it has its time and place, just like everything else.
Well, considering that being on a jury if called is your civic duty, yes, you should regret it if you’re ejected for not dressing appropriately. No one likes jury duty, but our system of justice requires our participation and we should all be willing to do our part if asked.
Nor is it a matter of impressing people. Actually, if you’re appropriately dressed, most people won’t even notice what you’re wearing. But if you’re the only person in the room (or one of a few) wearing jeans, you’re going to stick out like a sore thumb. An impression is most certainly made in those circumstances, and it’s not a positive one.
Sure I do. When in doubt, call your host. But there are (or at least used to be) universal standards for certain occasions unless otherwise specified. Unless the deceased was a biker, I’m not going to be disrespectful by wearing jeans. Likewise, unless a wedding has a casual theme, I’m wearing a pantsuit.
My personal standard is, “When in doubt, wear a panstsuit.” If it turns out the event was casual, I won’t look out-of-place, but if the event was more formal, I don’t want to embarass myself and potentially offend my host by showing up in casual clothes.
Ehhh. I’ll wear a sport coat to weddings and funerals, but there will be people dressed a lot more casual.
Can’t think of any restaurant that would require a suit and tie. And frankly, I think it would be ridiculous.
Been to court, but only as a juror. No need for a suit.
I wear the same thing to business meetings as I wear to work. Jeans.
Seminars? Yearly. There is a huge seminar in San Diego once a year for my profession. Very, very casual.
Fancy party? None that would ever have a dress code.
Again, I think its a regional thing. Colorado, and especially the mountain communities are very casual.
I live in Appalachia, and it’s extremely casual. There’s just no call to play dress up anywhere in my life. No restaurants where it’s expected, no “seminars” or “business meetings.” I can’t think of anyone who could get married and I would go, and as for funerals? I’ll worry about that if it comes up, just as I did the last time it came up.
Jury duty “requires” it according to you, not according to me. There seem to be just as many people on my side as yours, though I’ll admit your side is getting far more digs in about how mature and grown-up it is.
You know, I think I should apologize for this. You’re right-- it is a dig and it’s rather chilish on my part. Please accept my apologies for taking my frustration out on you and others in this thread.I guess I’ve been so appalled by the slipping standards in dress that I see around me that it’s made me a little waspish with anyone who defends it.
I appreciate that. And I apologize in turn for any comments of mine that were too pointed.
I think you might be surprised around here how many places a pantsuit would be a little odd, but I doubt anyone would ever say anything. They’d be too afraid you were with the government or something. 