Just a brief Fuck You to Der...

The BBQ Pit
101

It’s not psychobabbling. He’s just exagerrating because he thinks it makes him look clever.

Xtisme wasn’t happy about being called an Iraq war apologist, which is a gross misrepresentation of his position. Shodan backed him up so know the only people complaining (or whining) about the moderation are conservatives. Report a post to maintain civility on the boards and you’re the kid in third grade who kept the list while the teacher is out. Ask to report posts and your telling him to go call the cops on every lawbreaker, no matter how petty (which makes me think of the Citizen’s Arrest episode of Andy Griffith). And of course if you disagree with him, then you must be a conservative.

It just goes to show how ridiculous you are for holding such ludicrous positions that you don’t actually hold. Bet you feel silly now.

102

He reminds me of my grandfather-always ranting and raving about some stupid nonsense, or politics, or whatever. He’ll be the old guy at the bar raving about conspiracies until his kids come to pick him up-“That’s it, Dad, that’s enough, it’s time to go home.”

And then he’ll start shouting that everyone is out to get him.
I say we stick him and lekatt in a room together, and they can drown each other out.

103

OK, not trolling then. Glad you cleared that up for us.

104

The current war puts you in an invidious position:

Either you accept that there are times when the better result is that members of the US Armed Service are defeated or killed; or

You are a racist.

105

As a second grade teacher, part of my job is to teach kids the difference between telling me something important, and tattling. Telling me something important is when a kid does something that hurts the teller or another kid, whether physically or emotionally. Tattling is when they’re telling me that another kid has broken a rule when the rulebreaking isn’t hurting them or another kid (e.g., the rulebreaker isn’t doing her work, is chewing gum, etc.).

I guess teaching the difference between tattling and telling something important wasn’t implemented in your second grade?

Daniel

106

It all depends on who’s ox is gored. Hentor doesn’t feel any sympathy for someone being called an Iraqi War Apologist because it doesn’t bother him…he’s never been called one after all. Seems like a minor affront to him so he can’t understand why someone would get worked up.

I used to be this way. I couldn’t understand why being called, say, a Liberal or a Communist would get some peoples panties in a bunch…seemed pretty mild to me after some of the names I’ve been called in the past. It’s hard sometimes to put yourself in someone else’s shoes and see things from their perspective…and I still struggle with this even today when there is gray in my beard and my hair has mostly fallen out.

FTR, being called an Iraq War apologist gores my ox because I’m embarrassed and a bit ashamed that I DID used to support the war before we invaded…and even for a time afterward. I wouldn’t say I was an ‘apologist’ but I did think it was necessary and even good policy at the time though I’ve obviously come to regret that stance. Like any good dig though it bothers me because of how it used to be true…and how I feel about things now in retrospect. Simply put I’m glad my son is out of that hell hole and I hope to a god I don’t believe in that he NEVER has to go back…and I hope even more that everyone else’s sons and daughters, husbands, wives, fathers and mothers can get the fuck out of that place asap. I actually wish I was a theist some times…then I’d know GW would burn in hell for what he did. With a small place reserved for folks like me that went along and supported getting us into this fucking mess.

Anyway, I didn’t mean this thread to get into all this stuff…just wanted to initially vent which is what the Pit is for. And didn’t want to vent in GD where I would (rightfully) have gotten spanked for doing so.

-XT

107

I think I’ve been arguing that it has, better than many people here. Nothing that I’ve seen would come close to being important (i.e. “He called me an apologist!”). Hence, tattling.

108

As I said, I’ve never reported anyone’s post, regardless of things people have said. Unless someone says something important I’m not a fan of trying to get others “in trouble.” Seems like it’s kind of a game to some here. I know that there have been times I’ve felt like I’ve been goaded into saying something out of frustration, just so they could then “nark” on me to the moderators, as my brothers used to call it when I was a kid.

All I can think of that would be important to report would be some kind of actual threat of harm.

109

You missed the distinction I drew. Insulting someone is a way of attacking them personally. That’s worth telling the mods about. Tattling is when someone is doing something that doesn’t affect the tattler or another poster (“I think so-and-so is a sock!”).

Yes, you may be manly enough that insults don’t hurt you, and that’s really awesome. There are plenty of boards where you can hang out and insult people freely. Hell, you can even do so here in the Pit. GD is not such a place, and people who break the rules there deserve to get smacked around by the mods; alerting mods to someone who’s breaking such a rule does not fit any reasonable definition of tattling.

Given that the mods want to hear about it, and the reporter wants them to hear about it, and most of the posters want the mods to do something about it when the rules are actually broken, the complaints of a few extra-manly-men who don’t mind insults are irrelevant, IMO.

Daniel

110

Don’t take this the wrong way…you are a better person than I am if that is the case. I wish I was more in control of my temper as you seem to be.

-XT

111

I have decided that this entire thread, my own post included is the lamest, most tepid, and meaningless pit thread I have ever read.

I give it a 0.02 on the good rant scale, and a 0.01 on the who gives a shit scale.

We all need to find something else to do.

Tris

112

If by invidious you mean that I am a person that calculatingly wishes harm on others, then you are mistaken.
I cannot tell if your post was in jest or not.
Care to elaborate?
In my mind, there is never a time when the “better result” is when members of the Armed Forces are defeated or killed, and I am no racist, and I resent the implication that I am the latter or wish the former.
I and the other current and former soldiers (mostly officers) in my family live by the old soldiers creed of training to fight, hoping you never have to.
Hope this helps,
Steve

113

:stuck_out_tongue: Agreed…lets let this one sink into the obscurity it deserves.

-XT

114

I sympathize with this position, but it is far, far too simplistic.

I am told that Hugh Thompson, Jr. threatened to open machine gun fire on the US soldiers who were committing the My Lai massacre. Was he wrong?

If a Viet Cong or NVA detachment were to come upon the scene, and attack in defense of the villagers, would they be the “enemy”? Would you wish that the US soldiers might make short work of them, and get back to business?

From our history of revolution to the present, we have at least offered rhetorical support for the notion of the freedom fighter, the native-born who defends his country from foreign intruders. Do freedom fighters become insurgents depending on who the intruder might be?

Der Trihs is seized by an unpleasant truth that he is determined to press upon us. (He seems to be one of those people who are incllined to believe that the more repulsive a truth is, the more important it is…)

We are not anoited by God, we have no exemptions, we are simply the Americans. We are no more exempt from civilized standards than those who swear their loyalty to Greater Serbia or Wallachia.

I cherish ours, and I cannot help but hope them victorious in any conflict. But I am an American, if I were not, I must admit I might very well see it differently. Almost certainly, were I an Iraqi.

Put bluntly, our troops are where they ought not to be, doing what they ought not to be doing. If we “root for” them, we are no better than the Serb fervently wishing his soldiers wipe out the Croats. I do, of course, as do almost all of us. These are ours, if someone has to suffer, let it be the others.

And my American principles, the right of the native patriot to resist foreign invasion? Set aside, for the moment, flexible. More like guidelines, really…

Der Trihs is boorish and nasty in reminding us of this. I wish I could say he doesn’t have a point. But he does.

115

How does one bookmark a post? That was stirring, luci.

116

I don’t want anyone to suffer, but suffer we must, as human beings. War is simply an extension and instigator of even MORE suffering, and as such, should be used only as a last resort when other options have not been borne out.
I grew up believing (and I still do, for better or worse) that America was not only a place to come that was better than the one you left, but that we “stood up for the right thing”, as naive as that sounds now.
The Iraq (and Vietnam, hell, even Korea, really) conflict(s) are really tough to get behind, whether you’re a citizen OR a soldier.
That said, I feel the need to remind people that as a soldier, you DO NOT get to pick and choose which conflicts “feel right for you”, even in a volunteer military.
So, the conundrum exists where morality ends and you pick up a fucking gun and kill whom they tell you to. The grey areas of conflict get exposed as open sores on the hide of humanity for all to see, but many ignore, call for more, or recoil from it…but the soldier has to keep on.
This is a VERY difficult topic for me…both Grandfathers served in WWII and Korea, my Dad is a two-timer from Nam, Dad’s younger brother was a CObra pilot in Nam, the other brother was also a West Pointer yet missed conflict (I don’t count Grenada… :slight_smile: , I served in the first Persian Gulf War and I have two cousins that either have served or are currently serving in Iraq.
Don’t think for a minute that these people wouldn’t rather be home with their families instead of where they are.
The beauty of the American system (puppy throwing and Abu Grhaib shit aside) is that 99.5% of the soldiers don’t want to fight, and 100% of them volunteered for service.
I suppose I’m rambling and don’t know exactly what to say, but being called a murderer by someone that hasn’t *seen * shit and hasn’t done shit means…shit.

117

Click on the post number in the upper right hand corner of the post. The post will appear in it’s own widow, and you can bookmark that url.

118

But I have reported yours (for insults in GD), and you got warned for it, which is what all your whining is about.

Blaming your own impulse control problems on someone else is poor form.

All this means is that you want to get away with insults in GD. IOW, you are a troll, and angry at being called on your trolling.

Sux to be you.

Regards,
Shodan

119

And now you’re being a bit simplistic yourself.

Let’s offer another example - with other armies used so as to remove our personal patriotic feelings from the equation. When the Wehrmacht marched into the Ukraine they actually were greeted as liberators - with flowers and kisses and the whole deal. You will agree that the Ukrainians had no love for the Red Army - nor should they have had any, given events to that time.

That doesn’t mean it would have been better had the Nazis won, right?

120

Der Trihs is often perceived as having a legitimate point by those persons who rely upon the “we would be no better than they are” line of argument to justify their various positions and conclusions. Fortunately, many are those who may broaden their conception of the world beyond that of a college freshman who has just discovered that the political necessities of the state do not with any regularity conform to the moral preferences that the state seeks to inculcate in its children. Some of those fortunate souls are then free to appreciate the complete condescension and hypocrisy in imagining that they were or could be “better” than the Serbs in the first place, whatever that could even mean. New slogan: America, Better than Serbia. Maybe we should work our way up the ladder of perceived moral superiority until we can go for the title shot. I can see it now. America: Less Morally Bankrupt than Iceland. Yes, at last the tortured bones of my ancestors can rest, for their sacrifices were not in vain; we have gained morally supremacy on the national level, and surely this was why they suffered. Yes, this is why we band together, surely this is the purpose of our state: a high stakes competitive game of ethical, international Parcheesi from which our own descendants can expect to inherit jack fucking shit with respect to strategic advantage or access to vital resources.

A scattered few of those persons may thereafter become concerned, but not with this society which holds its moral and practical agendas at odds with one another, because this is of course historically common and no more than an extension of the conflict that exists in most adult individuals. The very existence of this conflict may even indicate a degree of societal robustness, so to speak. No, these happy few may rather begin to question the merits of a culture which holds so marginal a vice as hypocrisy to be its greatest evil. Have we become so soft and so beset by useless liberal arts degrees that this is the only dragon left to slay? Is our collective political will to be perpetually mired in the mediocre outrage of a teenager who has suddenly discovered that the state is not actually a brush by which exclusively just men paint their benevolent will upon the world? Is the only alternative a life of staunch loyalism and conservative idiocy, the sad final refuge of tiny minds and wee little cocks, destined to die mouthing the slogan of whichever drooling and malicious incompetent has been catapulted forward by the vicissitudes of fate and birth? Can the body politic achieve nothing greater than this ridiculous pendulum?

Are we to end so unwise?

When I first came here, I assumed Der Trihs was precisely 19 years old and going through that particular intellectual awakening available to the offspring of all American families willing to afford four years of state college tuition. I’ve since read otherwise, and it is obvious that he is fixed either by choice, or by inability, at that tiresome first step towards intellectual maturity: having discovered an inconsistency between what is morally right and practically advisable, he just can’t seem make the reconciliation and won’t stop screaming about the horror, the horror of it all. He is profoundly developmentally disabled with respect to those later stages of personal and political understanding (or at least compromise) through which a surprising number of adults are able to pass with relatively little psychic scarring, and is the sort of individual who bears watching in a society which permits virtually unlimited access to firearms. Either that, or he is a troll of such awesome construction and perfect execution that I will stand in Sistine Chapel-style religious awe should his unveiling ever occur.