Bullshit I’m part of the problem. I have been in their shoes, and I know it sucks. I stayed at a crappy minimum wage job for close to a year til I got a break, for a slightly less crappy job for a few bucks more an hour. There is nothing pompus about expecting people to do their jobs.
I understand the point you are tyring to make with your OP Binarydrone. I don’t expect the same service at McD’s that I do at an expensive Italian place. I do expect my order to be done quickly and correctly. If it makes me pompus because I expect the service I pay for (in the case of McD’s, my meal quickly), then I guess I am part of the problem.
No one is saying that now, nor has anyone said it anywhere in this thread. Please pick up your strawman and go play somewhere else if you can’t argue your point within the parameters of what we’re discussing.
We’re simply asking for adequate service, no one is asking that employees jump through hoops or be Ms or Mr Susy Sunshine. We’re simply asking that employees not be rude to customers, unless of course, they’re provoked.
What is part of the problem? You are getting paid less than what YOU think you should are worth? I know someone with the same problem…his name is EVERYONE. Everyone thinks “I should be making more”, “I deserve more”, “I should have a bigger raise”. If you are making 75% of the average wage of someone in your profession and skill level, maybe you have a case. Otherwise, T.S. If we all got paid what we think we’re worth, there’d be a lot of millonares not working.
There is nothing that the customer can do that justifies being intentionally rude. If some lady comes in and tells you to “eat shit, dumbass”, you smile and nod or say “perhaps you would like to speak to the manager”. That is what you are paid for. What are you going to do, get into a shouting match with some customer over napkins and fries because their comments are a personal affront to your pride?
I am definitely not defending those employees. I am blaming the level of service on management that tolerates this kind of behavior from their employees. I am blaming managers who demotivate employees with unreasonible requests, stupid conversations about “flair” or nickle and dimeing breaks or work hours. When employees are disgruntled management should either address what is disgruntling them if possible or terminate their employment. When a tire goes flat, it may or may not be the tires fault. If you are still driving on it a week later, it’s your fault.
It really is immaturity. “This customer irritates me so I am going to react to him/her”. “I don’t like how much I’m being paid so I will pout and drag my feet and lash out”. What if I did that in my job? I don’t like my client so I’m going to be rude and do my job half-assed. I’d be fired in a second. Does it matter that I get paid a lot more than a McDonalds worker? How much should a person be paid to put up with someone elses bullshit?
lezlers, I want to thank you. Your last few posts have helped my to clarify this issue in my mind, and also to understand why so many folks in this thread seem to be talking past each other.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that you are looking at this issue on a personal (or interpersonal level). On that level, you are 100% correct. Naturally, I don’t know you personally, but based on the tone of your posts I am confident that you have never done anything to deserve people being rude to you. Moreover, when this issue is looked at on the interpersonal level, a lot of my posts sound as if I am trying to excuse bad service.
However, there is another level that this issue can be approached. The Sociological or systemic level. It is through that lens that I have been seeing things. On that level, basically, the system is operating just as it is intended to operate (presumably by the companies that run it). It is functional.
At the heart of what I am saying, I guess, is the desire to have folks take a critical look at the other level of the issue or, if they had already noticed it, to consider the fact that the issue may be quite a bit more important than they realize.
And I think that somewhere between these two perspectives we will find the truth. While it is true that personal responsibility is in a horrific decline, the notion that the problem can be solved through the workers efforts alone strikes me as untrue. At the end of the day, what I am saying is that I would like to talk about the institutions and the way that they function that make our current state of affairs possible.
Lezlers, do you usually throw out random insults, or are your just feeling particularly bitchy today?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I believe we have been discussing a service employee’s obligation to provide friendly customer service. Several times it has been argued that a service employee should work hard at their job (smile, talk to customers, do more than the bare minimum) out of some sort of moral obligation to have a good work ethic (I’m a little low on the work ethic, so I might not have caught some of these nuances).
I’m just confused as to why the employee is the only one who has obligations. About half of customers are rude, and one quarter are rude to an absurd degree. The rest do the “bare minimum” to get the transaction done, and only a couple customers ever go above that to put forth their best effort towards being a good friendly customer.
Nor does the managment of most service jobs do anything but the bare minimum to attract employees. They rarely go out of the way to assure the employees’ ability to support themselves and their families, health, and well-being. Many of these places argue that the “bare minimum” of the minimum wage is too much for them to pay. Often these companies fail to even do well enough to retain the employees they do attract, and have absurdly high turnovers. Instead they rely on fishing from the constant stream of those that have fallen to the dregs of the labor pool and try to hold on to them for a month or two.
Then you have your employee, who apparently has this obligation to do more than the “bare minimum” not to get fired. This employee has an “obligation” to the management and the customer. I think that is pretty ridiculous.
If you don’t believe me, look at “two week notice” etiquette. Most service jobs are “employed at will” positions where one can be fired or quit at any time. I have seen employees be fired without notice (although more often they just have their hours reduced to the point that they can no longer support themselves and quit). However, it is universally considered rude for an employee to quit on the spot. The employees are expected to give two weeks notice. It’s ridiculous.
But that’s quite often the attitude that customers have. They seem to think in exactly the way sven described.
NO, employees shouldn’t be rude. BUT…I would say that customers shouldn’t be either.
And yes, we ARE paying as well-with our own labor.
Oh btw, for those who keep saying, “Don’t like it? Get another job!”, I’ll turn right around and say, “Don’t like it? Shop somewhere else!” It’s a two-way street, dammit.
No customers have the attitude that what you get paid and what your relationship with your boss is is really none of my concern. Tehre is anexpected level of service and if it falls below that, I have every reason, as a customer to feel slighted. Your problems are your problems, not mine.
No one is arguing this point.
Yes, and your labor or job is adequate customer service.
All right, we seem to have agreed that the service you are getting is the service that the company is intending to provide you. There are no surprises in this system. The system is working exactly as it is meant to.
Now we are to the question of whether or not the employee should do extra things like smiling and talking to you and going quickly.
The answer is: it would be nice, but don’t expect it if you’re not willing to pay for it.
The trouble is, I don’t view being pleasant and courteous as an “extra” in public service work. As a matter of fact, it’s pretty damned important. (And before anybody pitches a hissy fit, I’ve worked public service jobs for years, including minimum wage jobs.)
Of course the general public doesn’t have the right to be rude. Look folks, there’s a certain element of self-fulfilling prophecy here. Most people are NOT jerks, just some of them. It’s an inescapable part of the territory. It’s hard sometimes to deal with a badass and not be defensive with the next innocent schmoe who comes along. But that’s part of the job. Either you let the bad vibes roll out the door with the jerk or, guess what, you’re broadcasting jerkiness waves onto neutral, innocent folks. Sometimes that means smiling when you don’t feel like it. Everybody has to do that sometimes, no matter what their job. Even forced smiles can turn into the real thing, because they give people a chance to be nice back. But if you greet people with sullenness, indifference or suspicion you’re just ensuring more difficult contacts. Why make life harder than it has to be on everyone, yourself most of all?
Courtesy isn’t an extra, it’s a basic part of public service work that most certainly isn’t tied to pay. It’s damned insulting to the dignity of honest work to claim otherwise.
Smiling and talking pleasantly take energy that an employee may not have left.
I think one message of this thread is that you SHOULDN’T take it as rudeness if an employee doesn’t do these things.
Just keep in mind that the system is set up for this to happen, and you can do your business quite happily without the need to think that any silence or frowns are in any way related to you.
I was beginning to think I had wandered into the twilight zone and that I was the last person on earth to think that being civil to fellow human beings is a give-in.
Sven, you continue to argue points that aren’t relevent in this thread. Ganster already addressed them, so I won’t be repetitive. You’re making more out of this than there is. Simple as that.
Binarydrone, thank you for attempting to see past your customer service worker tinted glasses, and look at it from different perspectives. Many posters in this thread seem incapable of doing that. I’m glad I could help. You’re right about me, I go out of my way to be polite to customer service employees because I worked in the industry for so long myself. I have a degree in Speech & Communication, so it’s hard for me to look at things from anything other than an interpersonal point of view. That’s why I’m so astounded that so many posters are adamantly arguing that it’s okay to be unnecesarily rude or just unfriendly to random people. It’s twice as astounding considering these same people would probably be indignant if someone was purposely unfriendly or rude to them on the street, when they weren’t being paid to do so.
Nightime, it doesn’t take any extra energy to smile. That’s just lame. It actually takes mroe muscles to frown than smile, did you know that? I found in my years in customer service that it actually took more energy to be sullen and grumpy than to just be pleasant. Crazy, I know.
Guin, I basically have the same response to you as I do to Sven. No one is saying that customers should be rude. Total red herring, there.
Have you considered that you might just be a friendly, outgoing person?
Some people are introverts, and it takes considerable energy to smile and talk to people. I actually have to use a lot of energy to smile and talk to people at any time. It may be interpreted as being rude, but that is certainly not the intention.
Actually, I’m usually pretty shy and introverted myself, but for some reason whenever I was in a customer service position I was really bubbly and friendly. It came pretty naturally. shrug
YMMV
(although it does take more muscles to frown than to smile, I didn’t make that shit up)
I see here a conflict between the interpersonal level and the systemic level that Binarydrone is talking about.
Binarydrone’s point is that the corporations are paying minimum wage because good customer service is not important to them – saving the money in wages is more important than having workers who are happy about their jobs.
Everyone who posts that they think polite, friendly customer service is a fundamental of any service sector job is essentially saying that they think the big corps should get these things in essence for free from their employees. Meaning that big corps would have absolutely no incentive to pay more than minimum wage for any customer service job – ever.
Which, come to think of them, most of them don’t.
I’m saying the “everyone should be polite and friendly no matter how crappy their pay and how shitty their working conditions” bunch is part of the problem, not the solution. Basically, they’re advocating freebies for Megastore X.
Oh I’m sorry. What do you think Circut City is paying you for? Being civil is implied, if not specifically spelled out, in the job description.
Look - you (the customer service employee) have NO EMPLOYABLE SKILLS. NO RELEVANT EDUCATION. And from the sound of it, a lot of you have a SHITTY ATTITUDE. With a triple-threat like that you are workin exactly where you are supposed to. Your job requires two things - ring up items in the register and be pleasent - and you’re saying that you don’t have to do one of them. I mean who the fuck do you think you are?
Crappy conditions? You aren’t working in a sweatshop for Christs sake. Is it that hard to stroll around the showroom floor and not be a jerk?
The boss is a jerk? I have news for you. The more money you make, the bigger a jerk the boss becomes.
I realize that the minimum wage customer service job is essentially the sludge at the bottom of the labor market filter where all the kids, slackers, dropouts and unemployables collect. That is not an excuse for bad service.
Evil Captor, this is where we disagree. I think people should be polite and friendly in general, in and outside of work. It’s just part of being human. If someone hasn’t done anything to you, why would you be rude to them? Being unneccesarily rude to someone makes you a jerk. How come it’s acceptable in a working environment but not outside of it?
Guin, if you think everyone should make an effort to be polite, then why do you keep posting “exeptions” to the thread? That’s all anyone is saying! That’s all I’ve been saying from page one, and people continue to argue with me. Can you see why I’m so freakin’ frustrated?