At this point in my life, no. I have gained more wisdom and experience as I’ve gotten older and those experiences have strengthened my personal ethics and morals. Five years ago? Maybe.
I agree with HazelNutCoffee that this thread is more interesting as a discussion of what Jack’s friends and Jack himself ought to be doing. We’ve had the Scarlet Letter threads enough times already, I think by now we can all agree that, to some level of outrage or another, Mary shouldn’t be doing what she’s doing. In fact, I’m pretty sure Mary herself knows she shouldn’t be doing what she’s doing, and just feels helpless and overwhelmed.
My one question as it concerns Mary is whether or not it’s her place or even responsibility to tell Jill what’s going on. It doesn’t sound as if Mary and Jill are friends, and frankly when I think of being in that position and telling Jill the scoop, my stomach tightens up and I hear screams of terror in my head. Usually that’s my internal signal for “NO!”. OTOH…it does seem like Mary has information that Jill could use. OTOOH, Mary will certainly face huge, nasty, life-altering fireworks for doing so. OTOOOH: Bed, made, lie in it. So I’ve reached no conclusions there.
In the end, I don’t think there’s any ethical way for Jack to get himself out of this with his relationship with Jill intact. Unless he tells her and she chooses to forgive him (which is statistically unlikely, especially in this age cohort), his best bet might be to break it off with both women and get on with his life.
I guess it depends on whether Jill’s life is about maximizing happiness, or enduring pain. I was born with the perverse wiring, and so I’d take the pain just because I figured life is suffering & etc. In my old age I admit I’ve become increasingly fond of bullshit lies and the people that tell them, and so I permit myself a slightly greater indulgence. I guess my answer to the question would depend on whether Jill has the capacity to develop wisdom, or whether she’s no more than a pretty little thing who will suffer and learn nothing.
Its kinder for her to know now, after the first time (if it really is the first time, because Mary wouldn’t know). Permanent STDs aside, Jacks bad behavior will be reinforced if it doesn’t come out now and he’ll go through life screwed up and thinking he can have his girlfriend and one-night-stands too while Jill ends up humiliated as the sucker-girlfriend. Jill doesn’t deserve that.
If either Jill or Mary care for Jack, they’ll force him to face up to his mess and deal. Yes, there will be pain, loneliness and loss. What the OP needs to understand is that it is this very pain, loneliness and loss which will teach Jack and force him to change. Afterwards, it might be possible for him to be faithful to whoever he ends up with later on in life, even though it won’t be Jill or Mary.
It also frees up both Jill and Mary to find guys who are worth their time without losing years.
Why does loyalty to a friend trump ethical behavior?
I see it declared more by men than women, that if your buddy does wrong, you look the other way, and if he does wrong to another person, you keep your mouth shut.
Certainly loyalty is a quality to be praised and valued. Certainly friendships should be highly regarded and nourished. But that doesn’t mean that a friend who commits an evil act should be allowed to do so without consequences.
At the very least, Peter should have made it clear that Jack’s behavior was immoral and unethical. Once Jack made it clear that his behavior was not going to change - after all, it was Mary who put an end to the affair once she got her head on straight - Peter was in a sucky position. To say nothing means that he has given tacit approval. To say something means that their friendship may be at an end.
But is a friendship with a person who will put the happiness and health of another person at risk really all that valuable? And perhaps Jack would have been the better person if he’d known his friend wouldn’t stand for such behavior.
What kind of person is Peter if he covers for Jack’s infidelities? Because not speaking up is not a passive act. It is an active decision. It is withholding vitally important information from someone who needs it to make her own decisions.
It is not Peter’s responsibility to determine what becomes of Jack and Jill’s relationship. It is Jack and Jill’s responsibility. Jack has already proven that he doesn’t value the relationship - at least not enough to keep his dick in his pants. Jill deserves the chance to make her own decision based on all the facts. It’s wrong of Peter to deprive her of that. If he tells her what went on, and she breaks up with Jack, it’s not Peter’s fault. The decision will be Jill’s, and the impetus for the decision will have been all Jack’s.
phouka, will Jill believe Peter? And, will she understand that Jack was responsible, or will it all be that bitch Mary’s fault?
We don’t know. But I can tell you that I wouldn’t have believed our common friends and that my grandmother has always blamed “that bitch,” even when grandfather tried to abuse their own daughters and grandchildren. According to my grandmother, whenever my grandfather tried to grab my tits, it was my fault for having them; when he tried to feel up my cousin’s it was her fault for being flat.
I know you wish you’d known. I know I wish I’d realized sooner what an ass he was. But these things are always a lot more complicated once you go from a hypotetical Jack and Jill to real ones.
Nava, you make a good point. We certainly can’t predict how others will act if we give them painful news. However, I don’t think that absolves Peter. It isn’t Peter’s responsibility to decide for Jill what she’s going to do with the news - believe him, disbelieve him, scream like a harpy, grab a gun and shoot Jack, whatever. It is Peter’s responsibility to see that she gets the choice.
And, I’m very sorry about your grandmother. She sounds like a sick woman. She should have been there to defend you, and she wasn’t.
For those interested in debating The Other Woman’s role and responsibility, I have started a thread here.
I too was involved in a situation like this, but I was the Jack character, as sad is that is to say. My scenario had the added twist that Jill and Mary had once been friends, as f-ed up as that is.
I would agree that there is no way anyone but Jack should tell Jill. The important question, so far unasked, is why exactly Jack is cheating on Jill with Mary. Being a man, I’m sure a big part about it is the on-demand access to sex with another woman, especially since the thrill of cheating usually enhances the experience, so to speak. But seeing that Mary started off as a good friend and that it has gone on for a while, there is now probably an emotional aspect as well.
There also may be other factors at work here. I know in my case the phase in my life that I was at played a role. I had just finished college and started my first real job. The Jill character was pushing for more seriousness to the relationship. The Mary in my situation was 2 year younger and still in college. I was not yet emotionally ready to grow up, so the fling with Mary was essentially a way to cope with my unwillingness to accept the more grown-up phase of life that I was dealing with.
Given all of these factors, and the turnout that is wanted, it really only makes it possible for Jack to tell Jill. I’m going to suggest the opposite of what some have said, based solely on my own POV. If there is hope of continuing the relationship on his part, then I would say Jack should tell her as it is the only way that he can ever really emotionally recommit to her. If he doesn’t want to continue the relationship than I would actually not tell her and just break up. The emotional trauma of being dumped is enough for her to go through without the added shock of having his affair added to the hurt.
Having said this, I realize that should Jack want to continue with Jill and tell her, she will probably dump him anyway, which will send him right back to Mary; but that is the only hope for the long term success of their relationship.
It absolutely isn’t. Peter is Jack’s friend, not Jill’s. He only knows Jill because he’s Jack’s roommate and she comes over to visit him. I think he can counsel Jack to tell Jill, and let Jack know what a jerk he is, but it is NOT his responsibility to tell Jill. I don’t see how it could possibly be, and in fact I think it would be inappropriate of him to involve himself.
I’m very puzzled as to why many people believe that, were Jack and Mary to have had only a one-night stand, that Jill “doesn’t need to know”.
Emotional complications aside, like MisGypsy said, an STD or pregnancy could have transferred/occurred from just one sexual encounter. All of them – Jack, Jill, Mary – needed to be tested from the day after the one-night stand. For Jill to be tested, she needs to know what happened.
And as for the emotional bits… A drunken mistake is still a mistake – and it is still betraying the promise that Jack presumably made to Jill. I’m going on the assumption that their relationship is not polyamorous, so therefore by committing to each other, they made the promise not to have any sort of romantic or sexual liaison with someone else. One-night stands included. This is clearly a breach of trust – and I believe all breaches of trust need to be shared, if there is any attempt to be honest and communicate in the relationship. (And without honesty and communication in a relationship, what with that relationship worth? Nothing, that’s what.) A one-night stand is one dirty little secret to hold over the head of someone who Jack has been sharing an important part of his life with for at least four years. And of course, the added aspect of the emotional drama, of continuing the affair, just amplifies the betrayal. I don’t care how much growing or how Jack has changed in the time since the affair, he still hasn’t made an attempt to own up to the mistake he made some time ago. He’s still hiding. And he’s still telling one huge lie of omission in every moment that Jill assumes he’s been faithful to her.
Rubystreak, it shouldn’t be Peter’s responsibility to tell Jill, but in this situation, the fact is, Jill will not find out if Peter doesn’t do it. So although Peter shouldn’t be the one to shoulder the responsibility of choosing to give Jill the information, it’s been forced on him nonetheless. Choosing to accept that responsibility, and giving Jill the information, may well be more important than the “inappropriateness” of him involving himself in the situation.
This goes out to everyone who votes Jack should tell Jill.
Cheating on someone is a deliberate act. You didn’t fuck up. For some reason Jack doesn’t care about hurting Jill or doesn’t care if he hurts her as long as it makes the breakup easier. Breaking up takes courage, even for the breakee. There’s self doubt, insecurity, second guessing that can all be erased if ‘she’ dumps Jack.
Telling her just hurts her and gives her the opportunity to forgive him so he can do it again…or maybe she’ll have a revenge lay, either way it’s over.
If this were a sitcom, I’d suggest that Peter go to Jill and level with her. “Listen, Jill, I have to tell you something. But you can’t tell anyone it was me for telling you. Pay me back for my honesty by keeping me anonymous.”
So Peter gives her a way to catch Jack in the act, or some evidence that she can present to Jack. This is a complete MacGuffin–it can be anything. A cell phone bill, one of Mary’s thongs, a tip-off that Jack and Mary are going to a concert together–anything.
Hilarity ensues when Jill goes on the warpath and Jack has to try to pretend Jill is merely mistaken. However, she won’t let up, and he breaks down and admits his transgressions. They tearfully break up, and Jill never lets it on that Peter tipped her off. She grows closer to Peter, and (is Peter hot? Let’s say Peter’s hot.) hooks up with him a few times. And then she moves on with her life.
HNC says Peter is also Jill’s friend, from college. Just more Jack’s friend than Jill’s. I would say he was no kind of friend to her at all, but that’s me.
Although I must say it’s a weird relationship to me (Jack and Jill’s) if Jack can have an entire set of friends Jill has never met. If your SO has an entire life you don’t partake in at all, that’s a danger signal.
Anyway, if I was anyone else involved in this sordid little thing, one of the “friends” or whatever, Jill would have gotten an anonymous email by now, complete with cellphone snaps of Jack and Mary together (since I assume they do go out together which is how all their friends know about it…). But again, that’s me. Cheating is something that really doesn’t sit well with me. Especially since I know (at least) two people slowly dying of AIDS because of it.
One-night stand? Weekend in Vegas? Don’t ever tell me. I don’t want to know.
Constant, serial cheating? That implies to me that you’re having an emotional connection with this other person. Absolutely I must know.
And that’s my two cents. Everyone makes mistakes and I don’t believe in honesty simply for the sake of honesty. Too often it seems like telling in these cases of one-night stands is all about the teller; a way to assauge their conscience. “I told the truth, so it’s all good.” I’d much rather have my mate work hard to discover the reasons why and fix them without telling me.
Oh, and you can’t tell. It never goes well. The person doesn’t believe you and you become the enemy, or they are humiliated that someone had to tell them.
He lives with Jack and his loyalties lie with Jack, as stated by the OP. My husband has a couple of friends that I would consider my friends also, but if some horrendous circumstance arose where my husband cheated on me, I would not expect them to tell me. When you come right down to it, they are his friends first. It seems clear that Peter is Jack’s friend first. He lives with the guy!
Also, you have to be pretty good friends with someone to break this kind of news to them if their SO won’t do it. Otherwise, it falls firmly into the “none of your business” category, and you’re just buying trouble that ain’t yours. I believe Jill has the right to know what Jack did, but it ought to come from Jack. His friends, if they think what he’s doing is wrong, should counsel him to tell her in the strongest terms possible. But in the end, it’s Jack’s choice to tell or not, since no one else who knows about it is close enough to Jill to involve themselves in this mess.
I completely agree with this post. Thinking about my marriage, if my husband had some crazy one-nighter that held no threat to our relationship, I would certainly hope he would take that information to his grave. Why would I want to know something that can’t be changed, and would probably forever alter the way I look at him? No thanks.
On the other hand, a situation that could threaten my marriage, such as having an actual relationship on the side? That I definitely would want to know about. Would want to prepare myself for the ship going down!
I second this as the best response; virtually a textbook response.
The bolded part is also known as “Lies of Omission”; one of the most insidious of lies, because it manipulates and takes away the right of self-determination of another. Because of this, Jack does not respect Jill because he is selfishly placing his own right of self-determination over Jill’s right of self-determination instead of it being on the same level which would have ensured mutual respect of a relationship.
Peter should not tell Jill, but instead, tell Jack that he (Jack) needs to level with Jill, because he (Peter) does not want to be part of the “lie of omission” that he was dragged into by being the friend of both Jack and Jill. Jack really doesn’t owe this to Peter, but Peter does owe something to Jill…knowledge of the affair; and Peter’s hopefully successful prodding of Jack should fulfill the requirement.
I almost wished it had happened this way - things would have been better off for all involved, I feel.