Just how much false information there in this anti-Clinton e-mail I got this morning?

Factual Questions
1

I have gotten e-mails alledging suspicious deaths of Clinton associates before, but never one this long or with such a desperate screed. Usually I don’t even read these things anymore, but I 1) was surprised that the sender even bothered forwarding this to me and 2) I got sucked in by the length.

This latest one does make an allusion to the Rich case, so it seems to be fairly recent. But I am astounded at the sheer amounts of half-truths, omissions, selective vagueness and just flat-wrong sounding information that doesn’t even seem likely.

I DID make a few changes in re-arranging some of the wording for clarity and brevity, but the content is essentially the same as I received it a while ago.

Happy debunking!

<< Subject: They repealed the law of averages.

My guess is that the average person has never had any connection to even one person who died under mysterious circumstances.

Just a few people Clinton didn’t have to Pardon.

> James McDougal - Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement, after they took his heart medication away. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.

> Mary Maloney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

> Vince Foster - Former white House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

> Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

> C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser - Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

> Paul Tulle - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor”.

> Ed Wilily - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Wilily died on the same day his wife Kathleen Wilily claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Wilily was involved in
several Clinton fund raising events.

> Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

> James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

> James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent suicide by hanging. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

> Kathy Ferguson, ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were
going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

> Bill Sheldon - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancée of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancée, he was found dead of a gunshot wound at the gravesite of his fiancée in June 1994 – also ruled a suicide.

> Gaudy Bough - Attorney for Clinton’s friend Dan Lassoer, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

> Florence Martin - Accountant & subcontractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.

> Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

> Paula Grober - Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

> Danny Caesural - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.

> Paul Wincher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Caesural and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22. 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

> Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution TrustCorp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guarantee scandal.

> Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

> Charles Messier - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

> Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickinson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.

> Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena, Arkansas. Death was no accident.

> Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.

> Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guarantee. His death was purported suicide and his report was never released.

> Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fundraiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

> Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys
had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

> THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:

> Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.

> Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988

> Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

> Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

> James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to “natural causes”.

> Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

> Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989

> THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:

> Major William S. Barclay, Jr.
> Captain Scott J. Reynolds
> Sgt. Brian Hanley
> Sgt. Tim Sable
> Major General William Robertson
> Col. William Densberger
> Col. Robert Kelly
> Spec. Gary Rhodes
> Steve Willis
> Robert Williams
> Conway LeBleu
> Todd McLean

> Quite an impressive list! Pass this on. Let the public become aware of what happens to friends of the Clinton’s!

2

Check snopes. This is just a rework of the “Clinton Hit List” UL/hoax from a while back. Safe to say, not much of the email you receivied is accurate.

3

specifically http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/clinton.htm

4

Thanks. I should have remembered snopes and gone there first.

5

Man… theres this guy I work with who was spouting off about that list. So I sent him the snopes link discreetly in an email, and three days later I hear him spouting it off again to someone else. It’s like he didn’t even read the page, or he’s just SO Republican he doesn’t care. Needless to say, he no longer has any credibility with me.

Like if this was all really true it wouldn’t be all over the news like the Mark Rich pardon is, and the Monica Lewinsky thing was. Common sense people!

6

I’m not fan of Clinton, but this is clearly a paranoid’s fantasy. I mean, everyone knows people who have died, and a politically-connected (to put it mildly) person such as Bill Clinton must have more acquaintances than your average person. Let whoever compiled this make a list of everyone Clinton knows or has dealings with, and then calculate what percentage of those are dead. That’ll be a more accurate sense of just how deadly Clinton is.

The man (and/or his wife) has destroyed people’s careers and reputations, but I’ll be darned if I’d accuse him of actually killing them.

7

Actually, the anti-Clinton notes are starting to attract the attention of computer scientists and mathematicians. It turns out that they’re so full of lies and innuendo that they are stretching the very limits of information theory itself. Apparently the latest versions of the letter actually contain more units of hatefulness than can theoretically be expressed in a binary code of equivalent length. Expressing confusion at how this can happen, scientists optimistically predict that this could usher in a whole new era of data compression technology !

8

Clinton also caused the political death of Al Gore. Guilliani suffered the Clinton curse at the hands of Hillary.

9

Did you hear the report that recently Gore got into an argument with Clinton over this very subject? According to the news, Gore told Clinton that his lies and sexual antics and all that stuff cost Gore the election, and Clinton retorted with something to the effect that Gore was too stupid to play up the strong economy.

Regarding the Clinton Body Count lists: Yep, they’re still around. While most of it is bunk, there are some legitimate entries on the lists. The two that I’m seriously suspicious of are Vince Foster and Ron Brown. Brown because his death was just so damn convenient: Ron Brown was going to be indicted on criminal charges, and said that he was willing to spill the beans on Clinton in exchange for leniency. Then he gets on a plane and it crashes, killing everyone onboard. That’s quite a coincidence.

Vince Foster’s death is one of those cases that looks simple until you take a good look at it, at which point it becomes extremely complex and muddled. Many people, myself included, see evidence of a coverup in the investigation: evidence was mishandled or misplaced, and several witnesses (to the discovery of the body) have come forward to say that the FBI misrepresented their statements. I can’t do justice to the Foster controversy in just one post, but a good site to look at is http://www.fbicover-up.com The websight was set up by Patrick Knowlton, a guy who actually gave a statement to the FBI concerning the dicovery of Foster’s body. When the FBI filed their report, however, they had twisted his statement so badly that Knowlton sued to get them to change the report. He succeeded in getting his own info appended to the official report.

10

Diceman Coincidence does not = causality.

Police have been known to fumble evidence. Happens.

Not everything that happens is a conspiracy.

Even this.

11

True, but it IS a cause for suspicion. That was an extremely convenient plane crash for Clinton, so it’s not unreasonable to wonder if it was something more than a freak accident.

12

none of these “mysterious deaths” are in the least bit mysterious. all have been examined and debunked in detail over and over. If you want to see some mysterious deaths, examine the corpses that line Bush’s tracks through the years: Head of CIA, responsible for putting Pinochet in power in Chile, who in turn “disappeared” dozens of dissidents and innocent people who got in his way. Pinochet’s death squads even came to the US and blew up the car of a dissident in Washington, killing him and his American secretary. Bush is clearly responsible for these deaths and disappearances. If you want to fume about something, there are at least a few smoking guns for you. Not satisfied?

Bush’s Iran Contra intrigue is now known to have been involved in cocaine trafficking (through the famous Mena airport–a CIA front that had nothing to do with Clinton) to pay for our black projects in Nicaragua, Honduras, and Guatemala–death squads, torture, counterinsurgency, and lots, lots more. While Nancy “camel-knees” Reagan was advising people to “just say NO to drugs” her husband’s administration was funding heinous war crimes in central america by addicting young people to crack and cocaine.

13

With all due respect, I disagree. What you seem to be suggesting is that some unidentified people associated w/the President caused a plane crash, killing several people in addition to the one person that you see a motive for.

this would necessitate a criminal conspiracy with multiple actors, all of whom in addition to having zero ethics, would be able to engineer the crash, without tell tale signs that would be found in the investigation and/or completely control the investigation, all very publically.

Unless you have more proof than “it was very convenient”, then I suggest that this would fall under the definition of a slandarous remark.

14

Thanks for the rant, gabbyhayes – it was really on-topic.

I know a little about Ed Willey. He was an attorney who killed himself because he stole money (I believe something like $200,000) from one of his clients and the jig was up. He was about to be sued and was facing disciplinary action before the Virginia State Bar.

Another interesting fact is that Kathleen Willey refused the life insurance policy proceeds which meant they went to the Willey children. Because she opted out of the proceeds, the people her husband stole from were unable to recover any money from Willey’s estate.

15

Here is a site promoting the Clinton death count:

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/7582/part2.txt

It’s good he protects himself at the end:
“Footnote: I hereby serve notice that I am not depressed in the least, and that if anything happens to me, I publicly accuse Bill Clinton and his circle of power.”

16

I just love this one.

It is entirely more credible that George H. W. Bush had Wilcher killed than Clinton did. Consider: who is more capable of an execution faked as suicide - a lawyer and career politician, or the former directer of the CIA? Who had better motive: Clinton, killing the guy after he delivered his report on the Mena and Waco incidents to Janet Reno, or Bush, killing the guy before he completed his investigation into the “October Surprise”, Bush being involved in covert negotiations with Iran to release the hostages in an attempt to politically embarrass Pres. Carter and ensure Reagan’s election (with Bush the V.P.)? Hmmmm.

17

Hey, don’t you guys find it the least bit suspicious that literally millions died while Clinton was office?

18

That’s right! :eek:

And, weren’t there some big earthquakes, too?!?!

And, don’t you find all too convenient that of all the foreign leaders in the world, it was *Castro * who was busy poking fun at the Florida elections? and just what kind of cigar was Monica holding??? that’s right, a Cuban! :eek: :eek: :eek:

19

Oh, feh. Millions were born, too, and Clinton can’t possibly be responsible for all of them!

That said, debunking the so-called Clinton death lists has been done a million times, in this forum and elsewhere.

Does there remain a General Question on the table?

20

Manny: Nah. I guess not. The links were plenty. You can lock the thread up or move it to one of the other forums. Maybe I can spin a new conspiracy theory using John F. Kennedy, Jr.'s plane crash, the Clinton administration’s intrest in cloning technology and the curious disappearance of Socks the White House Cat. (Did he die? and if so – was the death from a gunshot to the back of the head ruled accidental?)