Just how reprehensible can you be in the Pit?

[Helena330]

@What_Exit

Maybe to entertain people like you.

I thought they were for the idiots who can’t seem to figure out how to not be a jerk.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@octopus

That’s fine and dandy. But it was explicitly stated that that behavior was not against the rules. Now, if you want to argue the rules or board structure should be changed, that’s a different story than contriving a sanction against someone who is following what was explicitly allowed.

Meh. If it was shitty to allow it before, then we have two bad choices:

1. Allow the shitty behavior to continue unsanctioned this time; or
2. Unfairly sanctioning some truly shitty behavior.

This ain’t a court of law. #2 is the far better option.

[What_Exit]

@Helena330

I thought they were for the idiots who can’t seem to figure out how to not be a jerk.

It’s funny, I just looked at some of the rules, for the first time since around 2009. It just isn’t that hard to not be a jerk and not break the rules and get warnings.

I can’t understand why Octopus gets so caught up in “the Rules”

[Colibri]

@The_Librarian

Welcome to the play of our performance art group: “Under the Bridge”

Moderator Note

Don’t accuse other posters of trolling, even obliquely, except in the Pit, or if you have a specific instance in mind that you wish to discuss with the moderators.

Colibri

[CarnalK]

@octopus

That’s fine and dandy. But it was explicitly stated that that behavior was not against the rules. Now, if you want to argue the rules or board structure should be changed, that’s a different story than contriving a sanction against someone who is following what was explicitly allowed.

Here’s the thing that puzzles me: why aren’t you using this incident to ride your “get rid of the Pit” hobby horse? Instead of commenting on Shodan’s “potty mouth” you’re all about “them’s the rules!”. Basically, why aren’t you on board with the BBQ Pit being a little less nasty?

[octopus]

@CarnalK

Here’s the thing that puzzles me: why aren’t you using this incident to ride your “get rid of the Pit” hobby horse? Instead of commenting on Shodan’s “potty mouth” you’re all about “them’s the rules!”. Basically, why aren’t you on board with the BBQ Pit being a little less nasty?

That’s a fair question. The answer is two-fold:

1. I’m trying real hard to stay on topic. It’s always a challenge for me.
2. I’m trying real hard and probably failing at being a little less redundant.
3. (Since I can’t count) I have no earthly idea how to have and objectively moderate a pit that is a little less nasty. I just recognize that as long as there is a pit there will be a multitude of posts that cross someone’s line and I don’t think it’s fair that being able to marshal on outrage brigade is a good metric on what is or isn’t subjectively offensive enough to merit sanction.

[Atamasama]

Let’s assume for a moment that Shodan was unaware of margin’s struggle with PTSD and employed his usual “you disagree with me so you’re insane” rhetoric without knowing that he was hitting below the belt.

When confronted with this did he apologize? Did he acknowledge that it was a poor choice of insult? Did he pledge not to do it again? He did none of that, he instead doubled down and blamed everyone else, especially margin herself.

I find that lack of awareness of even an accidental uncalled for comment to be the most reprehensible thing of all. What I’ve read in all of this is Shodan declaring that you can’t blame him for any of this and he will continue this behavior. How is that not being a jerk?

[Max_S]

@Atamasama

I find that lack of awareness of even an accidental uncalled for comment to be the most reprehensible thing of all. What I’ve read in all of this is Shodan declaring that you can’t blame him for any of this and he will continue this behavior. How is that not being a jerk?

It is, but it’s not rule-breaking. You’re allowed to be a jerk in the Pit and there is no rule saying one must apologize for that. If someone brings a particularly jerk-ish post to the light of ATMB, that does not, in my interpretation of the rules, mean the poster in question must apologize. Otherwise all insults would simply be pulled out of the pit for an apology.

But again, if he was aware, that’s harassment.

~Max

[steatopygia]

If he was not aware then, he is now.

[Telemark]

@Colibri

I have started a discussion in the mod loop about the issue. Please be patient.

Thank you. I’m not sure where the line should be drawn, or which side of the line this particular post falls, but it’s certainly a candidate for creating a working standard.

[Wolf333]

@octopus

You realize that I posted something from the former administrator that EXPLICITLY stated such behavior was allowable?

All I’ve seen is people attacking YOU for trying to use your children to stop the “potty mouths” in the pit.

[Scumpup]

You know, although I would miss the Pit if it were gone, maybe the best solution is just to eliminate it.

[Gatopescado]

@CarnalK

You can even just avoid the whole message board.

I can’t. I needs my Horse!

[crowmanyclouds]

You know, although I wouldn’t miss someone if he were gone, maybe the best solution is just to eliminate him.

Regards, CMC fnord!

[Emiliana]

@Scumpup

You know, although I would miss the Pit if it were gone, maybe the best solution is just to eliminate it.

One of the reasons why the Pit exists is that there are so many rules for other forums. For example, you can’t call out an obvious troll for trolling outside of the Pit. And you can’t call an obvious liar a liar, or a racist, a racist, etc. The racist isn’t modded, the person who calls racism racism is.

The board’s rules are driving people away because they favor obnoxious, hateful, and adamantly stupid posters who are all but free to post what they will, as long as they are outside of the Pit and careful with their phrasing. Posters who contribute nothing other than a dumbing down of the board stay; good posters, especially women, leave.

This board will end with just a few posters, Shodan among them, the rest of us driven away.

[thorny_locust]

@Atamasama

Let’s assume for a moment that Shodan was unaware of margin’s struggle with PTSD and employed his usual “you disagree with me so you’re insane” rhetoric without knowing that he was hitting below the belt.

I don’t see how I can assume that, because the comment wasn’t made as part of disagreeing with something margin had said; it’s a standalone dig, entirely out of other context. Shodan wasn’t otherwise even replying to margin, but to manson1972.

@Shodan

It’s the Pit. “You are out of your mind” ranks up there with “go fuck a cactus”. IOW it is not a specific insult at all - I do that to everybody. In the Pit.

“You are out of your mind”, in the context of “you are out of your mind for saying x”, is indeed far more of a general noise than a specific insult. But that’s not what you said, and that’s not the context in which you said it.

[eschrodinger]

@octopus

That’s fine and dandy. But it was explicitly stated that that behavior was not against the rules. Now, if you want to argue the rules or board structure should be changed, that’s a different story than contriving a sanction against someone who is following what was explicitly allowed.

I don’t think you’re reading what you quoted earlier correctly. It says that if you reveal personal info on the board, it may be used against you, and that is not against the rules. So, it is not against the rules if poster A has revealed that they are an accountant, and poster B insults them in the pit based on that information. No rule violation just for using personal info revealed by poster.

That does NOT mean that using personal info about a poster that they have revealed is somehow immune from violating the rules. I mean, how do you even get that? If poster A reveals his race, do you think poster B can use racial slurs against him in the pit? That’s nonsensical.

@octopus

I revealed I have children on this board. You know how often they’ve been attacked in the Pit? You know how often a mod has said one word about the inappropriateness of said attacks?

If that’s really what happened, you absolutely should have reported it. Attacking a poster’s children should be out of bounds anywhere on the board, including the pit. I’m fairly new, and for the most part I like it here, but if Shodan’s post is ruled OK, and your view of this is confirmed, then I won’t likely be sticking around.

[HurricaneDitka]

@eschrodinger

… If that’s really what happened, you absolutely should have reported it. Attacking a poster’s children should be out of bounds anywhere on the board, including the pit. I’m fairly new, and for the most part I like it here, but if Shodan’s post is ruled OK, and your view of this is confirmed, then I won’t likely be sticking around.

AFAIK, nobody took issue with this ugly post:

@Ann_Hedonia

i really hope Ditka’s little baby grows up to be a lying gaslighting piece of shit, just like his daddy. And I hope he steals his parents blind and commits credit card fraud in their name, then denies it, then accuses his parents of child abuse when they try to discipline him. Maybe the kid will even get HD sent to prison. I know this is a pipe dream, but it would be delicious karma. Yum Yum.

Because this is the moral standard that this shithead is espousing, and the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

[eschrodinger]

Including you? I don’t really have much patience with people pointing fingers at posts they did not report. If it bothered you, I hope you reported it.

[Guinastasia]

@octopus

Honestly? I think several people have said reprehensible and probably regrettable things in the Pit. I know I have. It’s irrelevant with regards to the rules and the environment of the Pit though. Furthermore, reprehensible is very subjective and there is no way other then mob rules to apply such a standard. Why don’t you read those posts by Ed Zotti (a couple posts above) from when an exceedingly similar situation not so long ago arose?

And condone? What I post is what I post. IF there is a Pit then people are free to use it according to the rules. That’s their prerogative. I don’t condone 99% of what is posted there. The other 1% are probably my posts.

You know, for someone who claims to loathe Pit as much as you do, you sure spend an awful lot of time there. It’s not like you’re being forced to – plenty of people have been here since the board’s beginning, yet never set foot in the Pit.
And nobody has attacked your kids. What was attacked was your using them as a shield to get people to stop attacking YOU, because you didn’t want them reading vulgar language. Instead of, you know, not allowing them to read the board in the first place. That’s an attack at YOU, not your kids.