But here’s the rub.
There used to be “consequences” for black people doing what black people should be able to do in a free society. The same goes for women, jews, gays, whoevers.
At some point disagreement turns into some sort of social version of “an offer you can’t refuse”. Now, there is no doubt a big gray area there. But, IMO, besides using your free speech to say “thats fucked up and here’s why” the battles to fight oppresion/whatever need to fought in/with the legal system.
Yes, like running for public office, for instance. And those people’s rights to do such things sometimes had to be enforced and protected at gunpoint. Against and from people who said things like don’t let that nigger be elected.
Used to be.
Well *there’s *your problem.
Now this, I have a problem with. If the restaurant were owned by a racist, fine, boycott them–I don’t want to give my money to racists, either. But to refuse to patronize a business because they’ve *hired *someone who holds and legally expresses views that you personally find distasteful? :dubious:
As long as the guy can perform his job without prejudice, I don’t give a shit what his personal views are, so far as his continued employment is concerned. If you were to figure out that he’s a racist from the way he’s treating the customers, absolutely go to the management with it and boycott them if they don’t take action, but to say that people whose beliefs you don’t agree with (or find downright repulsive) don’t even deserve to be employed… That’s pretty fucking unAmerican.
Pfft. I don’t want my sandwich made by some asshole that parades his bigotry around on the tailgate of his truck. How is that un-American?
Believing that everyone should share your beliefs, or else?
And who was doing the protecting? It starts with an L.
No, just my belief that you shouldn’t be a bigot. Or else…I’ll take my business elsewhere, yes. Ooh, how very un-American, choosing where to spend my money.
I have no worries if racists live in fear of getting their asses kicked or their property vandalized by others. In fact, I think it is a good thing, especially because the MO of so many racists is to make others live in fear of personal violence and vandalism for the crime of not being the right color.
L is forDwight Eisenhower, professor. What does this have to do with anything, other than giving you a clean shot at your own groin?
Is it terrible that I laughed?
As racists go, this guy has some points in his favor.
For one, he’s open; I’d rather people say what they think than be cowed into keeping secrets. Ugly, hateful and wrong ideas, in the light of day, can be spotted and met.
For another, he’s not promoting violence, either explicitly (“shoot them at the border”) or implicitly (black hand chained to bumper, which I take to be a reference to the murder of James Byrd Jr.).
No, he’s talking about voting. He might even claim that his objection to Obama is primarily political, not just based on race! Of course we’d take that for bullshit, but he’s no different there than a few million other Americans.
I can’t disagree with someone choosing to spend their money elsewhere on the basis of this, or most anything, but the petition to the employer, over something that is not happening in the workplace, is a little different. I wonder what exactly they expect to happen.
I don’t think assaulting people for what they think is any better than assaulting them for who they are.
I’ll fight on the basis of actions, no less.
The word you are looking for here is “unsurprising.”
Not all opinions are created equal.
Well, if you read what I wrote, you’ll see my argument is that there isn’t such a fine distinction to be drawn. The purpose of the expression of racist sentiments is very often to create a climate of fear in their target group. Repaying that by teaching the scum what it is like to live in fear doesn’t strike me as a bad thing at all.
No, no. I meant terrible. I guess it’s one of those things I shouldn’t laugh at, but did anyway.
I have mixed opinions on the boycott. On the one hand if you had an innocuous Re-elect Obama in 2012 bumper sticker on your car there are people fanatical enough to boycott your employer about it, and if you had a clean but identifiable pro gay marriage symbol- which some people find highly offensive, some agree with, and probably most wouldn’t notice- you’d absolutely get boycotted by the extreme right. If that happened you’d definitely think people were overreacting.
OTOH, it would be less reasonable to be severely offended by a Re-elect Obama or a pro-gay bumper sticker, which is just a poltical p.o.v., than “Don’t ReNig” which is blatantly and intentionally racist. I would never stop patronizing a place with an employee who drove a **Palin 2012 **bumper sticker so long as they still were courteous but I would definitely not patronize a place with the ReNig employee or that displayed homophobic merchandise. (I once had more than a hundred dollars of merchandise I was going to buy in a T-shirt shop in Atlanta and put it all back when I saw a T-shirt that read “Silly Faggots: Dicks are for Chicks”.)
OTO-Other-H, if I were the owner of the business I would want to know why I was losing customers. No easy answer so go with your gut.
[QUOTE=Drain Bead]
I am not generally someone who wishes victimization upon others, but I have to say I’d cheer a little if I found out this dude got punched in the face or his truck got vandalized.
[/QUOTE]
Word. I believe every law abiding person should have the right to walk down a street without being mugged, but if somebody happens to walk down a street in a bad section of town fanning a stack of $100 bills in front of them and a mugger snatches it from them and runs off I’m going to think “moron” just as strongly as I think “thief”. Knowing fully well that there are a lot of fanatical and or unbalanced people out there this guy is choosing to intentionally piss people off (again, if he had a **Palin 2012 **sticker I’d disagree with his political views but wouldn’t think he was being deliberately inflammatory- Re Nig is deliberately inflammatory) and I wouldn’t cry if he pissed off the wrong one.
Because it opens the door to people boycotting other places of business because, say, one of the employees has a gay pride bumpersticker. Or, for something less common and socially acceptable, a sticker that indicates that the person is a furry or involved in a (consensual adult) D/s relationship.
Boycotting a business based on the personal beliefs of *its owner *makes sense, because the more patronage they receive, the more they’re able to exert influence based on those beliefs. Boycotting business based on the personal beliefs of *some fucking burger flipper *is just petty. The guy’s wage isn’t going to go down because you’re getting your fries at McDonald’s instead of Wendy’s; worst-case, he’ll be fired for holding a *perfectly legal (albeit wrongheaded and distasteful) belief *that he was mature enough to keep from interfering with his job. (And if it is interfering with his job, then get him fired for that–not for a fucking bumpersticker.)
And yes, it is unAmerican, because the *point *of this fucking country is that we get to think and say whatever we want, so long as we don’t cause harm to others. That goes out the window when something you say, legally, outside of work, that in no way affects your ability to effectively do your job, gets you fired. Because for every person you’re happy to see fired for being a bigot, someone with a completely different set of views is going to use the same reasoning to try to force the termination of an employee with a belief that you find acceptable but they object to.
There’s a world of difference between *hiring *someone who *has *a racist bumpersticker and *selling *bigoted merchandise.
Both show implicit acceptance of bigotry if done with the manager’s knowledge. Personally I couldn’t care less what my employees’ political opinions are but I wouldn’t knowingly hire somebody who intentionally offends people- something for which there’s rarely if ever an excuse.
Why should a manager have any knowledge of what I put on my car? Why should it be any of my manager’s fucking business?
I once watched a floor full of Japanese skinheads skank to Screwdriver (it was fucking hilarious). Maybe my job should fire me. :rolleyes:
Because his staff represents his business, especially when the car is parked in his lot.
[QUOTE=Shot From Guns]
I once watched a floor full of Japanese skinheads skank to Screwdriver (it was fucking hilarious). Maybe my job should fire me. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Maybe so. I have no opinion on the matter as I haven’t a clue what that means. (I know what Japanese means and guess that skinhead means shaved head rather than Aryan, but that’s where it ends.)
